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Thread: AAR Centrifuge Training Vehicle CQB.

  1. #21
    Changing an organization is really an issue of having the right personalities in the right place at the right time. That being said it only takes one regime change in an organization and everyone is right back to shooting C.A.R. or doing Krav Make America Great Again.

    Personally at 52 I try and focus on people that want to help themselves and not change agency culture, but I'm old and jaded too.

  2. #22
    Member feudist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthNarc View Post
    Changing an organization is really an issue of having the right personalities in the right place at the right time. That being said it only takes one regime change in an organization and everyone is right back to shooting C.A.R. or doing Krav Make America Great Again.

    Personally at 52 I try and focus on people that want to help themselves and not change agency culture, but I'm old and jaded too.
    Bingo.

    The last recommendation I made before leaving training was to cut Qualification down to that: 50 rounds a year.Meet handcuffing, baton and spray

    P.O.S.T. requirements. That's it for mandatory training.

    Take the huge savings in ammo costs and man-hours and use that to seriously train people that wanted to be trained. Create an increasingly comprehensive curriculum.

    You can't make a razor out of lead.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthNarc View Post
    Changing an organization is really an issue of having the right personalities in the right place at the right time. That being said it only takes one regime change in an organization and everyone is right back to shooting C.A.R. or doing Krav Make America Great Again.

    Personally at 52 I try and focus on people that want to help themselves and not change agency culture, but I'm old and jaded too.
    Agree 100% on both points.

  4. #24
    I think the fact that we’ve seen so many agencies at federal, state, and local levels adopting VCQB shows change can occur. I know at one fed agency where I have friends, it was because of exactly what southnarc said - right people, right place, right time. Im just happy when I see LEO’s not using the V notch for vehicle stops anymore.

    Full disclosure - I’m a Centrifuge certified VCQB instructor. And when I went through the class there were accuracy standards. And not all who were there graduated.

    In defense of the “why” not being given, there’s a ton of research that’s been done by Will, Chase and others. Enough that it could be its own class. Some of it is going to be LE sensitive and would not be appropriate to discuss at an open enrollment class.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by andre3k View Post
    The least I can expect of any instructor is to have some sort of answer when I ask why. He might totally be blowing smoke up my ass, but I expect some type of answer without having to go to the 40hr instructor class.
    I agree with you, especially in an open enrollment or paid class. However, as you know, there is the way things should be and the way things are. I've literally had an LE instructor scream at me like Billy Mays and want to step outside and fight because he considered asking "why" to be "disrespectful." Never did get an actual answer.

    Is a bullshit answer really any better than no answer? I think it might be worse. Example:

    Many years ago, I was at an in-service specialty school. We were going to do shotgun to handgun transitions. The shotguns had provision for slings but none were attached and use of slings was not addressed. Instead we were told the SOP was to take all slings off shotguns in the field. If you got into a shooting and expended the rounds in the shotgun without stopping the threat, we were to grab the SG receiver with our support hand and hold it in front of our chest while returning fire one handed. When I asked why we wouldn't just drop the shotgun and shoot two handed vs a threat that could not be reduced by 4 rounds of 12 gauge, I was told it was SOP to "preserve Government property" and that If I dropped an empty shotgun to transition to my handgun in a real shooting I was "going to jail."

    I've always thought "Good question - I don't know but I'll find out" was better than blowing smoke.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Cid View Post
    I think the fact that we’ve seen so many agencies at federal, state, and local levels adopting VCQB shows change can occur. I know at one fed agency where I have friends, it was because of exactly what southnarc said - right people, right place, right time. Im just happy when I see LEO’s not using the V notch for vehicle stops anymore.

    Full disclosure - I’m a Centrifuge certified VCQB instructor. And when I went through the class there were accuracy standards. And not all who were there graduated.

    In defense of the “why” not being given, there’s a ton of research that’s been done by Will, Chase and others. Enough that it could be its own class. Some of it is going to be LE sensitive and would not be appropriate to discuss at an open enrollment class.
    I agree but would add that the "right time" is usually the result of negative outcomes or in rare instances, a window of enlightened leadership.

    By leadership, I don't just mean the head firearms / training guy.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    I agree but would add that the "right time" is usually the result of negative outcomes or in rare instances, a window of enlightened leadership.

    By leadership, I don't just mean the head firearms / training guy.
    I concur. The good news is, as you know, Will’s material makes it hard for even the most admin of LE administrators to remain unconvinced. Especially with the ballistic demos.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Cid View Post
    In defense of the “why” not being given, there’s a ton of research that’s been done by Will, Chase and others. Enough that it could be its own class. Some of it is going to be LE sensitive and would not be appropriate to discuss at an open enrollment class.
    https://centrifugetraining.com/cours...mplementation/

    Funny you should mention that.....

    Material Creation & Program Implementation


    Course Duration: 2 Days
    Course Requirements: LE/MIL Only
    This course focuses on providing students with a blueprint on how to isolate trends and analyze relevant data sets occurring within their department and current law enforcement on a national level. Attendees will work through the research, creation, implementation, and management phases over two days of intensive coursework. Common logistical issues such as live-fire restraints, training time considerations, and other common hurdles facing the modern training program will be discussed and worked through. This course is ideal for experienced instructors or program managers working in an academy or in-service environment looking to elevate the training status quo or who have been tasked with material creation or program implementation.

    Individual Equipment List:
    A laptop equipped with MS Word, Excel, and PPT.
    Noise-canceling earphones/earbuds are strongly recommended.
    An editable version of your agency's template for lesson plans.
    Thumb drive.
    Sticky notes.
    Note-taking material.
    The course dress code is business casual.

    Course Prerequisites:
    Current LE / mil / gov credentials.
    Recognized basic instructor certification (i.e. POST, TCOLE, NRA LE, etc) is mandatory.
    Strongly Recommended: An operational background in law enforcement in-service and or academy training.
    If you have any questions about the course, the prerequisites or what is recommended please do not hesitate to ask us.

    Available Classes:
    UpcomingMaterial Creation and Program Implementation in Fort Worth, TX
    February 23, 2021 - February 24, 2021

  9. #29
    Site Supporter Clark Jackson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thn9mm View Post
    Centrifuge Training Vehicle CQB.
    https://centrifugetraining.com/courses/vcqb/
    February 22-23, 2020
    Location: Grandview, TX. Range 35

    Costs: Tuition: $550. Range Fee: $40 (covers both days). Hotel $130. Gas $50. Food $40
    Students: 15 adult males.
    Instructors: Lead Instructor: Bryan Veliz , Assistant Instructors: Bones, Chase.
    Student:Teacher ratio= 5:1
    Round count: 650 approximately.
    Weather: Cloudy, cold. Day one was in the lower 50’s, day two was warmer in the low 60’s with winds and occasional sprinkles.
    Day One: 9AM-5:30PM. Day Two: 9AM-3:30 PM

    I have no financial conflicts of interest with anyone or any product discussed in this review.
    Thank you for taking the time to do a thorough review. I appreciate you went to more than one source and wrote on both of them. I would recommend you check out what Mike Pannone has to offer and look forward to that review.

    More knowledge is good. Knowledge from multiple sources provides one the ability to sift fact from fandom.

    If anyone conducts or influences the training of others, I encourage them to read this article about fixed vs growth mindset.

    Read with an open mind. Don't get defensive. Do some honest introspection in regards to the 17-strategies.

    Or don't.

    It's all good.
    "True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost." -Arthur Ashe

  10. #30
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    Relevant to institutional trining issues:


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