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Thread: AAR Centrifuge Training Vehicle CQB.

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Clark Jackson View Post
    I did not say you did or did not agree with it; there’s no need to light the vulgarity lamp.

    I would argue that in today’s world where information (seasoned by 19+ years of relevant training-combat-training cycles) is instant and always at your fingertips there is little to no room for what you are describing - regardless of the organization or bureaucratic hurdles present.

    Anyone who willingly accepts the “do this because we said so” leadership or training model (especially if the leadership or training is demonstrably substandard) are partially to blame for their own situation. One person can and often does make a difference.

    As to your question: I do not know why institutional instructors seek out training on their own dime & time if they cannot bring it back to their people. You’d have to ask them and let me know as I’m curious to their reasoning. However, I do understand seeking outside training to benefit yourself if the parent organization doesn’t provide it, but that’s a different story.

    Leadership ineptitude and end-user ignorance are a part of an organization’s problems, but ultimately individuals should blame the instructor.

    To co-opt a great movie scene/quote: “The shooters are weak? The shooter’s are weak? You’re weak!”

    Instructors can do good work with the support of, or in spite of, organizational bureaucracy. Unfortunately, ‘work’ is the operative word that most miss or choose to ignore.

    IMO, no one should pick up the mantle of “instructor” if they aren’t going to put in the work. I don’t think I’m off base by saying this concept transcends all successful organizations regardless of LE, MIL, or CIV designation.

    To be clear, putting in work includes efforts to right the ship with leadership, end-users, and the organization at whatever level.

    If these ‘work’ people do not exist within an organization I would recommend the following courses of action:

    1) get into a position to personally make change happen, or

    2) find a new organization

    Last thought:
    “Do this, this way, because we said so” is a literary chariot of the damned which often manifests in real world tragedies.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    That's great. You're not the first person to figure all that out. But it's not how institutions work. Not just modern institutions either. The opportunity for intuitional change is rare and normally only appears in response to losses in blood and treasure exceeding the cost of the potential change.
    Quote Originally Posted by karmapolice View Post
    Wrong and wrong.

    Like very wrong, it is a hard fight but it can be done. I have been part of the change for my organization and others to include local, state, and federal organizations. With good leadership it is easier but it can be done with other styles of leadership as well. It also does not require that much but personal accountability as an instructor, caring about your students, an open mind, and some basic things to help motivate and increase students performance.
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthNarc View Post
    Changing an organization is really an issue of having the right personalities in the right place at the right time. That being said it only takes one regime change in an organization and everyone is right back to shooting C.A.R. or doing Krav Make America Great Again.

    Personally at 52 I try and focus on people that want to help themselves and not change agency culture, but I'm old and jaded too.

    The average tenure of a police chief in my state is two years. The average tenure of a Sheriff here is 18 years. I was fortunate to be the Chief Deputy for terms 5,6,7 of a 7-term Sheriff. I started in 2009. It took until 2014 to turn the culture to the point that breaking out of the "always done it this way" mode, and even then, it took waging an instructor war among my own staff.

    Quite frankly, some who couldn't adapt got left behind, and through attrition of both instructors and personnel, we selected people who were part of what is now the "way we do it", and part of that is challenging our own thinking.

    Thankfully, the program will not be abandoned by the new admin. In fact, it should get even better, but had the election gone the other way, "my" guys would already be back to shooting a qual course and a night fire once per year.

    Instead, I just left a meeting in which we planned out a year's worth of actual training.
    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.

  2. #32

    I hear you


    I appreciate your dedication, time and patronage. I was forwarded this thread today and sent this out company wide with my thoughts after having read every entry. The quick of it is, I hear you and there will be changes made.

    - I believe debriefs are important, but can be over done. Going forward they will be kept to twice a day (instructor / subject dependent)

    - The admin has, within the past month been bolstered with a second employee and, honestly it's something we should have done previously. That being said the responses are timely and the information flow seems to be clicking at an optimal rate.

    - Data. My bros, there's no way we are going to be able to go through instructor level data (5 day course) in a two day class. An end user course isn't designed to give you the research, its there to give you the reps. We spend, on average 2 hrs a day in the classroom in a week long course. That's 10 hrs of classroom, that being said in a 2 day class you'd end up with 6 hrs of drill time. Obviously it's a balancing act.

    - Moving forward THE instructor(s) assigned to your class will be cc'd on all communication. You'll know who's teaching the class and have a direct line to communicate with him if needed.

    - End user classes will be capped at 14 students.

    I think that covers most of the big stuff. Unfortunately there's a lot of trial and error.

    I appreciate you, your feedback and studious approach to life and problem solving violence.

    I can't say that I'll be checking this forum often, but if there's anything you need don't hesitate to reach me direct @

    Stay safe,


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