Handgun Bench “clamp” for mechanical accuracy testing?

[okie john]

Found it. Post 37.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....evisited/page4


Okie John

[Clusterfrack]

Here’s my 100% unsolicited and 100% off-topic, but nonetheless 100% accurate, advice: If you want to shoot groups for the sake of shooting groups, switch to rifles/carbines.

Totally agree. 8" at 25 yards with a stock Glock is more than acceptable. You're ready to move on to more interesting and valuable pistol skills than shooting groups. Maybe every month or two, revisit your groups. I'm guessing they will shrink.

[BillSWPA]

What works for me:

Grip the gun so that when viewed from the top, the central axis of the barrel is lined up with the central axis of your forearm. At least for me, this helps place the trigger halfway between the top and first joint of my index finger, and facilitates a straight rearward trigger squeeze. It also properly indexes the gun so that when drawing from a holster, the gun comes up into my line of sight with the sights already close to being aligned.

Use a target having a color that contrasts with the sights for the clearest sight picture.

Gabe White has a thread that is now multiple years old showing different sights in different light conditions. Dawson tritium sights are among the most visible under the most conditions. However, sight preference is highly individual, and others here have other preferences. Some experimentation may be needed to determine what works for you.

Get a SIRT training pistol. It can quickly help diagnose issues that are more difficult to diagnose with live fire.

I agree with others that you are not doing badly with 8” groups at 25 yards.



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[Sanch]

Here’s my 100% unsolicited and 100% off-topic, but nonetheless 100% accurate, advice: If you want to shoot groups for the sake of shooting groups, switch to rifles/carbines.

hahaha good point! my reasoning for working on tight groups with my handgun in slow fire is to make sure I got the fundamentals down. If I cant get appropriately tight groups at a specific distance with single shot slow fire than theres no way I can do it at speed!

If I was complaining about 3" groups at 25 yards and wanting to shrink them to 2" groups then yeah I think it would be kind of a waste of time. But I'm at 8" groups at 25 yards now and maybe 5" at 15 yards. All pretty reasonable for a glock I guess but if you add time pressures and stress of a real situation then I'm worried those groups will double or triple in size making it just not good enough!

[Sanch]

Totally agree. 8" at 25 yards with a stock Glock is more than acceptable. You're ready to move on to more interesting and valuable pistol skills than shooting groups. Maybe every month or two, revisit your groups. I'm guessing they will shrink.

Maybe that is acceptable. Could be subjective? Is there any rule of thumb for slow fire standards where we say "if you can do X inch groups at this dstance and X inch groups at that distance slow fire then your good enough to switch to working on speed and other skills"

[Clusterfrack]

Maybe that is acceptable. Could be subjective? Is there any rule of thumb for slow fire standards where we say "if you can do X inch groups at this dstance and X inch groups at that distance slow fire then your good enough to switch to working on speed and other skills"

I’d say keeping your shots in the A zone of a USPSA target or the 7 ring of a B-8 at 25yds is a good rule of thumb. You’re doing at least that well.

[HCM]

Glocks aren't 4" at 25yards pistols regardless of gen and model. Some are significantly more precise and certain gens and models consistently more so than others. People tend to have an interface problem with them in regards to wrangling out accuracy. Mechanically they have always had a great lock up design and potential to be very precise depending on chamber spec per caliber.

Unless you hunting or playing accuracy games practical accuracy you get with them is going to lack for most without a true single action trigger. Rest on a bag, against a tree, atv, etc. to assist with trigger and grip and you get 4-5" at 50-60 yards all day with any good ammo.

Our guys here like JHC and GJM can do that all day offhand...

Some of the older (Generation 2 and 3) G22s and 23s are worse than 4” at 25 even under the best conditions.

I’ve seen some LE trade Gen 2 & 3 G22s that are 6-8” guns. The good news is many of them can be greatly improved by re-crowning the barrel. Apparently related to the production rate /QC due to demand back in the day,

When talking about B8s, shooting groups and Glock interface issues it is important to distinguish between accuracy and precision.

[OlongJohnson]

hahaha good point! my reasoning for working on tight groups with my handgun in slow fire is to make sure I got the fundamentals down. If I cant get appropriately tight groups at a specific distance with single shot slow fire than theres no way I can do it at speed!

If I was complaining about 3" groups at 25 yards and wanting to shrink them to 2" groups then yeah I think it would be kind of a waste of time. But I'm at 8" groups at 25 yards now and maybe 5" at 15 yards. All pretty reasonable for a glock I guess but if you add time pressures and stress of a real situation then I'm worried those groups will double or triple in size making it just not good enough!

I started shooting slow fire groups because that was all the inexpensive ranges around here let you do. 1-sec or 2-sec rule speed limits. I branched out and got into some intro-type classes where I could go faster, and the wheels completely came off. I recognized that as a serious problem and started paying for range time at a more expensive joint that allows rapid fire. Eventually, got to the point where there isn't necessarily a large difference between fast and slow-fire groups. Trying to go too slow, especially with a DA (or Glock-like) trigger, just gives more time for problems like wobble and anticipation to develop and kick your butt. Especially with H&K LEM. I still have a long way to go, but that's about where I am now.

Read okie john's links. If I remember, he does address the topic of ammo. I've seen Hornady ammo notably, and repeatably, shrink groups in more than one .40 cal pistol versus other quality ammo. In that particular gun, most FMJ ammo was shooting "oranges," and the Hornady shrunk it to "limes." Might be worth playing with if you want to mess around.

[oregon45]

What do your 8" groups look like? Are they roughly circular, or are they dispersed primarily horizontally or vertically? Are they centered on the target or do the "misses" tend to go in one direction or another? Depending on the answers to those questions, there are a variety of hardware and software solutions available.

For instance, and I've had this problem with Glocks of my own, if your groups are spread vertically, a new set of sights that have clearly defined edges (serrated front blade and plain-black serrated rear sight) often will help you tighten up your groups. The same goes for groups that are strung horizontally. Both types of stringing also can result from a relaxation of your grip during a string of fire. How many shots are in your groups? How quickly are you firing? Are you conscious of whether your grip is shifting during the string?

For a stock Glock, the first thing I would do is get a better set of sights. Then take a box of known premium ammunition, like Federal HST, and shoot a few groups. Take those groups as your new baseline. I've had 25-yard groups shrink by more than half when switching from bulk-pack 9mm 124 to Federal HST 124+P.

[ViniVidivici]

OP, ammo choice matters out at 25 yards, if you're trying to determine inherent accuracy of the pistol, or your own ability to wrong it out.

Certain loads are known to be more accurate than others, and certain barrels "prefer" certain loads.

Speer GD, 124gr, though expensive, are wicked accurate in my G19 and G17.

ETA: welcome to PF! You will learn alot here, I sure have!