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Thread: Substitute Standard White Whale

  1. #1

    Substitute Standard White Whale

    I've wanted a S&W model 58 for as long as I can remember. Something looking even more business-like than a heavy barreled Model 10, issued in the city my wife was raised, possessing the fixed sights I so love, and able to be loaded from roughly 40 S&W to bear medicine. But I've never had money when a good one was available. As prices increase, the chances I'll ever score one drop with every passing year.

    Also parted with a 6" heavy barreled Dan Wesson 15-2 last year. It was a great gun but the trigger couldn't be lightened and still ignite my handloads in double-action and I finally acknowledged that I would never get a second barrel and shroud. Sold it to a friend with more time and money to feed it factory .357 it'll pop and get the spare barrels it deserves. Miss the gun but it's in a better home that appreciates the wooden target stock I'd tracked down to replace the Pachmayr with which it came.

    But every cloud has its silver lining. A local needed to come up with cash with the quickness and approached me about his 6" model 57 no dash with target stocks. Five hundred dollars later, it was mine with 38 nickeled cases, two factory loaded 180 grain Barnes bullet based cartridges, and 20 round of 175 grain Winchester Silvertip.





    I got to help a good dude, scratch my 41 Rem. Mag. itch, fill the 6" heavy barreled and adjustable sighted magnum hole in the collection, and I already have plans!

    Ammo:

    -Start with 41 Special using Starline brass. Plan to cast range scrap lead in a Lee 200 grain SWC mold, powder coat, and load over enough Unique to get 950-1,000 FPS in the gun. This will be my primary load. Already have dies and the mold. Given my luck with 180 grain powder coated range scrap lead in 40 S&W, I anticipate no problems.
    - After my few hundred rounds of recently delivered 210 grain Remington HTP are emptied, cast 210 grain Lee SWC* over enough powder (likely Unique) to make 1,350-1,400 in this particular gun. A decided magnum load but staid enough to reduce abuse to the gun.

    Leather (to be ordered immediately upon tax return):

    - Simply Rugged Loaded Pancake with oxblood finish and basketweave tooling.
    - Simply Rugged 2x6 pouch with same finish and tooling. Just their name for a traditional and timeless 2x2x2 pouch.
    - Simply Rugged 1.5" or 1.75" belt with same finish and tooling.

    Support Gear:

    - Wolff power rib hammer spring Start with the reduced power and see if ignition is still reliable. If not, reinstal the factory spring until I can get a factory-weight Wolff to try again. Don't know how I forgot to post this important one when originally typing.
    - More HKS speedloaders and see if I can find a leather pouch for.
    - A handful of Quick Strips if I can find any Tuff Products in stock.
    - See if I can save enough scratch to score a brass receivered Henry lever-action to go with it sometime in the next year. Plus Skinner rear sight to immediatly replace the buckhorn that I so hate.
    - Now have J, K, and N frame revolvers. The L frame slot needs filled. Thinking a 2.5" 357 Rem. Mag. with either fixed or adjustable sights and a thumb-break leather OWB. This good deal is going to end up very expensive.



    * If powder coat proves insufficient, also traditionally lube and see if that helps.
    Last edited by SCCY Marshal; 03-03-2020 at 02:15 PM.

  2. #2
    Member Tennessee Jed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Music City USA
    Wow, that is beautiful! Reminds me of a 29 that I bought the week I became 21 (not the smartest idea for a young handgun shooter). Hope you get many many years of enjoyment with it.
    Ordinary guy

  3. #3
    After checking POI at 25 yards with the HTP - dead on - chronographed a cylinder of factory Remington 210 grain HTP jacketed soft points from about four yards back:

    - 1,330
    - 1,320
    - 1,291
    - 1,275
    - 1,311
    - 1,271

    Giving me a 59fps extreme spread and average velocity of 1,299 and 2/3 fps so we'll call it 1,300fps for 787 foot pounds muzzle energy. And I felt it.

    Working from that, going to slightly change up my magnum home-cast load plan. Will aim for 1,250-1,350fps and pick whatever groups well with no pressure signs or sticky extraction. Ties or near equivalents will favor the lower load to reduce needless pressure increases for marginal gains. This should make Unique a stronger contender for powder without having to use double the amount of HS-6 or deal with H110 and its unwillingness to load much under max. If I can use Unique and roughly halve my powder consumption, even magnum loads will be cheap enough to shoot often enough to get more comfortable with.

    The hope is for one of the loads to hit near the POI of Remington HTP out to 50 yards. Would allow me to use the HTP as a field load (ie. excuse for source of occasional fresh brass) unless a handload truly outperforms it while primarily burning something cheaper at the range. If the POI differs notably beyond 50 yards, could just take the hit and burn HTP at the range when shooting longer distances for the far less often it'd be done.

    Plan stays same for the special load. Don't think dropping my target 50fps would buy me anything while likely making less efficient use of case capacity with the powders at hand.

    And I now definitely want to see if I can swing a Henry by autumn. If the loads gained a couple hundred fps or more from the barrel, it'd be an absolute hoot and strong medicine for most anything short of moose 'round these parts. And need to add a leather cartridge looped butt cuff to my.shopping list. That would really make the package.

    Oh, ran a few reps of Claude Werner's 5^5 from low ready. It showed that I need some practice handling magnums what start with four. Could do it but took more concerted effort than I'd like. May have botched it shooting cold.

  4. #4
    I hope I never need your help! LOL

    Great revolver.

  5. #5
    Getting that revolver for $500 would have been a steal 10 years ago.

    Your plan sounds solid, but I'd skip the 41 Special brass--it can leave a fouling ring that raises pressures with magnum loads.


    Okie John
    “The reliability of the 30-06 on most of the world’s non-dangerous game is so well established as to be beyond intelligent dispute.” Finn Aagaard
    "Don't fuck with it" seems to prevent the vast majority of reported issues." BehindBlueI's

  6. #6
    I'm less concerned about extra cleaning in the cylinder than the novelty and ease of deliniating the two LSWC loads. It'll also leave me ready should I ever trip over a cheap used GP100 or Single-Six and send it to get bored out for 41 Special.

  7. #7
    A friend of mine worked for a suburban PD until he retired. Toward the end of the use of revolvers by most PD's, the issue gun was a 4" S&W 657. I can't recall what load was issued.


    I had a 4" 657 for a while. I had it Armoloyed by the original Armoloy shop in Ft. Worth. I had a M-58 too. Wish I still had both.


    My friend was an Elmer Keith style BIG BULLET guy and this choice pleased him immensely. After a few years, they dropped the revolvers (the guys could buy their duty gun for $1) and issued S&W 9mm's. 5906's IIRC. My friend was so disheartened by the move and had such little confidence in the 9mm that he started firing an excessive number of rounds on each target in multiple-target training scenarios. We eventually got him to quit this practice and he grudgingly got along with the 9mm until his department finally adopted the .45ACP S&W 4506.


    The .41 is MUCH gun. Not sure if the early guns have the tendency to unlock and allow the cylinder to turn backwards that the early 29's did (I think the 29-3 is where they implemented the fix), but watch for it with heavy loads. With more comfortable loads, it should not be a problem.


    Rosco

  8. #8
    Decided to have a lazy day and leaf through my copy of Shooting by one J. Henry FitzGerald and it's bumped this handloading project to the top of the list. Need to score me some large pistol primers, a bullet sizing die, and 41 Special brass by the end of April. Until then cast and powder coat some bullets with my 200 grain Lee mold.




  9. #9
    Site Supporter SeriousStudent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Texas
    That is a beauty! I do hope it brings you much enjoyment.

  10. #10
    It's at least bringing me much expense. The first thought that came to mind with the announcement of Trump Bucks was possibly tracking down a 4" model 25 in 45 Colt, adding some Pachmayr stocks, and cooking up a load of 250 grain round nose flat point over enough powder to give ~900 fps, 2x2x2 pouch, and a simple OWB leather holster. N frames have really planted in my brain. Given my 41 Special plans with my end of month paycheck, there's no reason to want the thing. With the exception of it being an awesome project and just different enough from my 57 to avoid redundancy.

    Or double down and instead score a 58 to give the same stocks, bob the hammer, garishly highlight the front sight, add a lighter Wolff hammer spring, and try not to carry should I find an AIWB piece of leather. Might lean this way given my love of fixed sight wheelguns. Shame the .41 never got its original police load. It would have been a short hop from 200 grain semiwadcutter to 200 grain semiwadcutter hollowpoint like the lovely old 44 Special loads. The 210 grain semiwadcutter design from the 41 Rem. Mag. should have been easily reworked to a 200 grain hollowpoint to make design relatively quick and easy. My lizard brain chooses to see an alternate history where it caught on and Federal dropped a 200 grain HST in 41 Special.

    My 57 alone didn't hook me this hard. The buddy what sold it getting his crisis sorted did. Finally got the 6" layaway Highway Patrolman that had been on hold. It's an old workhorse and the Pachmayr stocks fit us both well while being much trimmer than the target stocks and carry no concerns about dinging when it bumps into things. I'll have to work up some midrange 158 grain lead flat point magnum loads for us to try out in the awesome thing. Offered to buy it off him, as well, but he nearly punched me instead of barking , "NO!"

    I've definitely learned why N frame afficionados carry a cultish devotion to the guns. Eagerly waiting on a few more boxes of Remington jacketed softpoints to further enjoy this old game hammer while building up my brass supply. And my tax return to immediately exexute my leather plan.

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