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Thread: Is Shooting Blanks at a Pistol Range a Thing?

  1. #61
    Member wvincent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abu fitna View Post
    If the subject is of Russian ethnicity, or has run with Russian crews or their associates in the past, this may also be an inherited lie. In Moscow & St Pete in particular, modified blank firing weapons are common and assertion that they were only used as such by the holder may be an attempt to set up an unwitting possession defense. Perhaps here incompletely pursued, or insufficiently understood based on whatever chain of oral tradition as the story was passed along.
    Just for clarity on my part, are you saying blank (starter pistol's) modified to actually fire a live round?
    Will the pistol even handle the pressure?
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  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    We used to do all Duty ammo with .40 being all brass and 9mm being all nickel cases. Still had mix ups.
    Are they all even the same/similar guns? In my case my BIL had a bag full of Glocks and loaded magazines. We were at an indoor range and I was helping a bit to coach his lesser experienced adult sons. I think I might have been the one to fire the actual shot, and it was not that abnormal. I think I have the case around somewhere.

    OTOH, a friend that has recently become more active in shooting bought a 9mm and a .40 M&P, but has been almost exclusively shooting the 9mm. Those mix ups become apparent when you are clearing the stoppage.

    Also, this thread has mentioned guns being seized with magazines staggered with incompatible ammo. I have often wondered WTH when reading news stories where someone is "miraculously saved" when a modern gun suddenly "jammed", perhaps this brings some clarity to that.

  3. #63
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    @HCM and @TGS have it right on, IME. On the range I have seen a .45 chamber and fire a .40...with attendant case rupture. Weapon was a Sig.

    Recently recovered a stolen .38 S&W revolver loaded with 9x18 Mak and .380 blanks from a tweeker in a stolen car.

    pat

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by wvincent View Post
    Just for clarity on my part, are you saying blank (starter pistol's) modified to actually fire a live round?
    Will the pistol even handle the pressure?
    Russian blank firing weapons are not the same as starter pistols. These are purpose built firearms that fall under a specific section of Russian criminal code. These are typically chambered in 9x22mm PAK, and are legally permitted to be sold with unobstructed barrels for less lethal rounds (rubber ball, CS gas, etc.)

    Modifications of these nonlethal systems to fire 9x18mm Makarov cartridges are common. Such conversions often leverage a certain degree of corruption, where "private security" or other licensed (issued to only to connected persons) officially purchase only the nonlethal version; and if they have problems with mere possession can pay out to avoid miltsia (city police) paying attention to any irregularities with design. If caught in use, depending on charge and context, the defense that they didn't realize it was capable of firing live rounds has been successfully used (again, sometimes in connection with appropriate interventions by the offender's krysha - corrupt protection structure). This has given rise to the belief that claiming one only used a weapon for blanks is a useful statement under interrogation, which is sometimes conveyed as part of the oral lore of those involved with certain groups in discussion of prior hits, raids, etc.

    Legacy TT and IZh-79 / 6P42 Makarov pistol clones chambered for nonlethal rounds and converted back to 9x18mm MAK are known, and newer Klimovsk pistols are commonly adapted. There is also a fully automatic SMG style weapon based on the KEDR design called KAPLAN that is common; and reportedly favored due to associated with certain Russian special forces elements (where private security turned criminal muscle then either seeks out from actual prior experience with the platform, or attempted mimicry of the cool kids). An 18mm shotgun style nonlethal conversion has also been documented, but less frequently observed as this requires nonstandard, custom ammunition manufacture.

    The Baikal Makarov clone conversions are often found in criminal hands throughout Europe, including in multiple cases in the UK. Royal Armories has a reference example in their stacks.

    This is all generally not something seen in the US. But stories have an odd way of moving through underground cultures, thus the stipulation re nationalities involved in case, as this is about the only context I have ever seen reference to blanks raised.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmc45414 View Post
    Are they all even the same/similar guns? In my case my BIL had a bag full of Glocks and loaded magazines. We were at an indoor range and I was helping a bit to coach his lesser experienced adult sons. I think I might have been the one to fire the actual shot, and it was not that abnormal. I think I have the case around somewhere.

    OTOH, a friend that has recently become more active in shooting bought a 9mm and a .40 M&P, but has been almost exclusively shooting the 9mm. Those mix ups become apparent when you are clearing the stoppage.

    Also, this thread has mentioned guns being seized with magazines staggered with incompatible ammo. I have often wondered WTH when reading news stories where someone is "miraculously saved" when a modern gun suddenly "jammed", perhaps this brings some clarity to that.
    Nope. .40 SIGs and HKs and 9mm Glocks. Many have one of each though.

    The case mouth of the 9mm brass expands to fit the .40 chamber and winds up a bell shape.

  6. #66
    Site Supporter psalms144.1's Avatar
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    Over the years, I've seen PLENTY of 9mm brass "fire formed" into .40 S&W chamber dimensions; likewise .40 S&W into .45 ACP. No matter how many times I explain what three separate areas I'm placing the ammunition BY CALIBER, some chucklehead invariably finds a way to get the wrong stuff. It is pretty amazing the number of times I've seen trained LEOs jam a 9mm magazine chock full of .40 S&W ammo. As difficult as it is to load each round, you'd think somewhere along the line the "clue" light would start blinking.

    All of this leaves nothing compared to the nuclear engineer who loaded five magazines with 12 rounds each - primer forward on every round...

  7. #67
    Site Supporter OlongJohnson's Avatar
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    Were they H&K mags?
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  8. #68
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    Here’s an interview with a blank firing gun Subject matter expert who describes the modifications necessary to make a pistol like the p89 shoot reliably with blanks. Suffice to say firing blanks at the range is not a thing.

    It’s a long video, but the most relevant information for you is from ~1:30-4:00.
    Take note when he mentions the difficulty of converting the glock 17 to blanks since it uses the same operating system as the Ruger p89.


  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlongJohnson View Post
    Someone mentioned rimfire blanks earlier. Just to note, they are readily available.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powder-actuated_tool

    https://www.homedepot.com/b/Tools-Po...s/N-5yc1vZc2b8

    They are also what would typically be used in a non-projectile-firing "starter pistol." It's also possible to use them to fire a .22 airgun pellet from a .22 pistol as a breech-loading single shot, or so I've read.
    Good responses given in this thread. In addition to the above nail guns/starter pistols, the only legitimate blank usage I am aware of is for military or law enforcement funeral details, but these are typically .308 or .223 rifle calibers.
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  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Whitlock View Post
    Good responses given in this thread. In addition to the above nail guns/starter pistols, the only legitimate blank usage I am aware of is for military or law enforcement funeral details, but these are typically .308 or .223 rifle calibers.
    I'm not military or law enforcement, but a few years ago I bought a 50 rd box of Prvi Partizan 9 mm blank ammo. I have used a few of them at 4th of July barbecues fired thru a HK P30 and a HK P2000SK. The Prvi Partizan pistol blanks fed from the magazine of both pistols but there was not enough recoil to function the pistols for automatic reloading. In fact in the two pistols I tried the slide also needed to be manually locked back and the empty case either shaken out of the pistol, or the magazine removed and the empty case removed thru the grip's magazine opening because the crimped nose of the blank expanded so it was too large to eject normally thru the ejection port when the slide was pulled back manually. The blanks were a pain in the butt to use.

    The 9mm blanks definitely work better in the movies with worked over movie prop pistols than with the two live handguns I tried. I have since switched over to lighting firecrackers on the 4th instead of fussing around with the blanks in auto-loading handguns
    “Safety is nice, but it’s not first. Life is first and it’s not safe.”— Jeff Cooper

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