The Importance of Recoil Control to Shooting Performance

[MGW]

I don't think there is an argument that less recoil makes for better shooting. Equipment that recoils less is simply always going to be easier to shoot well, GJM's experience excepted.

It also emphasizes how important learning to control the cycling of the gun to return the sights to zero as repeatably and quickly as possible is. I expect the software solutions to this are more impactful than the various hardware solutions, but I don't think hardware solutions are necessarily useless.

These discussions are always difficult because it’s hard to quantify what we’re actually measuring when talking about shooting performance. It’s also hard to compare one pistol to another over a short period of time. For example, my best Bill Drills that I’ve recorded are with a P09 and a 229. My two best failure to stop drills are with a 45 caliber 1911 but I’ve come really close to the same performance with a 43x.

There’s a lot of stuff going on here. Each of the above handguns handle and recoil differently. Draw times factor in maybe. They were probably similar though. And anyone can get lucky once or twice with a given pistol and hook up a good run on a given drill. Sticking with one gun over a long period of time and taking snap shots of performance over time is really the only way to know what you’re capable of with a given pistol. I’m guilty of doing the exact opposite of this.

There’s a lot that goes into performance with a pistol. Trigger control is obvious. Grip is pretty obvious. Recoil control isn’t so obvious. My theory is that recoil control has a lot to do with getting use to the timing and recoil characteristics of a gun. Maybe as skill improves this is less important. I don’t know.

Sorry to ramble a little bit. It’s been a long couple of weeks and I need to go to bed.

[JHC]

I think I might have this tendency too. If I shoot a 1911 for awhile I find that I can pick up a 17 and shoot it really well. It doesn’t take long though and I start throwing shots with the Glock. I’ve always assumed it had more to do with trigger control than anything else. But maybe it’s the grip strength difference needed to control 45 compared to 9mm. I haven’t owned a 21 in a long time but it would be interesting to see if the same thing happened after shooting one of those for a couple months and then switching to a 17.

The struggle is real. Kevin B caught me at it first and pointed out the cause of the phenomena when I outshot my 17 with the 22 on a drill. I was like dohp!

[Duke]

Tried my best avoid this thread.. but I can't


No one is asking if you should be able to control recoil to shoot well......No one is asking who can shoot their identical glock better that the other guy can shoot his identical glock.



What is being asked : Could the same proficient shooter, at the same skill level, be expected to perform better (against himself) with a lighter recoiling gun.

To that the answer is yes.

Also... to those with no experience with well a set up gun, please refrain form repeating the nonsense of "comps don't do much in 9mm"... I can assure you in the right set up, they absolutely do more than "something"

If the above statement is based off a GM level shooter running a 9 minor gun vs an open gun in major or .38 super than sure, thats partially true.. you'll need more gas to do the work.

Consider that statement is directed at guns that are very overtly centered toward high level competitors - where the circumstances will be ideal for proper grip and recoil mitigation and the only consequence of failure is a Match lost. Adam from Atlas gunworks will tell you a 9 minor comped gun isn't helping you and he's right..... in the context of a match against major guns.

I want a comped street gun so the next crack head I have to trigger or tussle with is at an even greater disadvantage because my gun is doing some work that I didn’t have time for with a less than perfect grip or draw

The recoil system as a whole will be as much a limiting factor as the comp. A tilting barrel browning system with stock springs will not have the same amount of reduced felt recoil/muzzle rise a different system - Like the 2011. The DVC-P in this case runs an 8lb recoil spring.

See below the video of my island comped 2011 STI vs my 4" non comped STI.

I can get .13 A zone splits at 10M from the comped gun... its just magic. The non comped gun is super accurate but the 2 simply can't be compared in their ease of use.





Here's a 10 meter match strike with the 4" so again accuracy isn't an issue but the comped gun is so much easier to shoot well.

[TCFD273]

Tried my best avoid this thread.. but I can't


No one is asking if you should be able to control recoil to shoot well......No one is asking who can shoot their identical glock better that the other guy can shoot his identical glock.



What is being asked : Could the same proficient shooter, at the same skill level, be expected to perform better (against himself) with a lighter recoiling gun.

To that the answer is yes.

Also... to those with no experience with well a set up gun, please refrain form repeating the nonsense of "comps don't do much in 9mm"... I can assure you in the right set up, they absolutely do more than "something"

If the above statement is based off a GM level shooter running a 9 minor gun vs an open gun in major or .38 super than sure, thats partially true.. you'll need more gas to do the work.

Consider that statement is directed at guns that are very overtly centered toward high level competitors - where the circumstances will be ideal for proper grip and recoil mitigation and the only consequence of failure is a Match lost. Adam from Atlas gunworks will tell you a 9 minor comped gun isn't helping you and he's right..... in the context of a match against major guns.

I want a comped street gun so the next crack head I have to trigger or tussle with is at an even greater disadvantage because my gun is doing some work that I didn’t have time for with a less than perfect grip or draw

The recoil system as a whole will be as much a limiting factor as the comp. A tilting barrel browning system with stock springs will not have the same amount of reduced felt recoil/muzzle rise a different system - Like the 2011. The DVC-P in this case runs an 8lb recoil spring.

See below the video of my island comped 2011 STI vs my 4" non comped STI.

I can get .13 A zone splits at 10M from the comped gun... its just magic. The non comped gun is super accurate but the 2 simply can't be compared in their ease of use.





Here's a 10 meter match strike with the 4" so again accuracy isn't an issue but the comped gun is so much easier to shoot well.

Felt like this post from Chuck was fitting. He was replying to a comment someone made in regards to the handgun he was using.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Duke]

Felt like this post from Chuck was fitting. He was replying to a comment someone made in regards to the handgun he was using.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Completely agree.

[GJM]

Question 1: for two otherwise identical and equally reliable pistols, will the one that recoils less be easier to shoot? Answer, yes.

Question 2: does it matter? Answer, it depends.

[Clusterfrack]

Question 1: for two otherwise identical and equally reliable pistols, will the one that recoils less be easier to shoot? Answer, yes.

Question 2: does it matter? Answer, it depends.

Cross-posting from another thread, relevant to this very thing.

I finished today's practice with the very hosey classifier CM 99-23 Front Sight. Two strings of 2-2-2 on three open metric targets at 7 yds. The targets are 7.5' apart so the transitions are wide. I also shot a run with my carry gun (CZ P-07 Prograde). All the times were very close (around 2.4s for string 1 and 2.0-2.2s for string 2) because that's how I was shooting it. Here are the results:

Shadow2: -3C 12.4 HF (96%)
Shadow2: -4C, 12.06 HF (94%)
P-07: -1C, 12.5 HF (97.4%)

This was a WTF for me, and I didn't expect it. But in hindsight it kind of makes sense. I felt like it was easier to stop the very light P-07 on target during a wide transition, and the turn-and-draw felt faster/more precise. The recoil impulses of the two guns feel very similar despite the weight difference because I'm very comfortable with them both. At only 7yds I'm shooting entirely target focus.

Of course my best run was the last one, and it could have just been that. However, it does seem clear that my light compact carry gun isn't much of a disadvantage at this type of shooting.

[Duke]