Testified in an Ohio House Committee hearing yesterday about our CCW law

[whomever]

"Maybe I'm missing something, but why wouldn't an individual notify an officer that they're armed when stopped by a LEO?"

A couple of thoughts from the civilian peanut gallery (my state doesn't require notification):

1)I think the CPL info is delivered with license plate data now, but prior to that you's hear the occasional horror story where a new/fearful/not used to CCW officer would react to being handed a DL and CPL by immediately drawing and pointing their gun at the driver or other overreaction. I could be wrong, but I suspect the risk of that is a little higher for civilians than off duty LEO's. I have in fact had LEO friends whose advice to avoid that was 'don't volunteer that you are carrying for the typical stop where you just set in the seat and get your ticket/warning/whatever; do inform if anything happens where the officer is going to discover the gun, e.g. getting told to get out of the car'. I drive like an old woman, so I don't have any first hand experience :-).

2)A traffic stop is pretty unambiguous, but I'd wonder about other situations. A couple of actual examples:
-I'm driving down a rural road and see an officer at a fresh wreck. I stop and roll down the window and ask if he wants help (he did, gave me a maglite (it was dark) and had me direct traffic while he did other things)
-I'm walking the dog and see a bunch of fresh expended shotgun shells in the park. I swing by the storefront office and poke my head in and say 'FYI, there are a bunch of empty shells by the picnic shelter'.
-there is a bad wreck on the interstate )unconscious people ejected from the vehicle, etc. Amazing amount of dust, visibility still only 100 ft when the first officer arrives a few minutes later. I ran up and gave him the location and number of the injured.
-I open the garage door to back out the car and see a patrol car with lights on setting by the drive. A car had gone off the embankment w/o us noticing. The officer was having trouble getting up the steep bank; I leaned down and helped pull him up.

Do I have to start each of those encounters with 'Officer, I have a CPL and am armed today'? Particularly for the third one, it didn't seem like the most important info to get across.

I don't really have strong opinions on the issue (and my LEO friends are mostly of the 'I assume everyone is armed anyway' persuasion), but I do think that it's a rule that ought to be interpreted pretty leniently for any of the above situations.

[Alpha Sierra]

I'm not a fan of mandatory notification.

It places an additional burden on the citizen for no benefit to the police. If it was so important for officer safety, just about every state would mandate it. But they don't.

It does give dirty cops another reason to jack people up for no good reason. Most egregious example I know of is already on display here. There are plenty more from where that came from, I'm sure.

I have had several encounters with police (traffic stops) and every single officer/deputy/trooper I've dealt with has been professional to a T and some even interested in talking handguns. But that's western Ohio. I've been told by acquaintances from northeastern states that notification there would most likely amp up the tension during the encounter, rather than reduce it.

[Alpha Sierra]

"Maybe I'm missing something, but why wouldn't an individual notify an officer that they're armed when stopped by a LEO?"

A couple of thoughts from the civilian peanut gallery (my state doesn't require notification):

1)I think the CPL info is delivered with license plate data now, but prior to that you's hear the occasional horror story where a new/fearful/not used to CCW officer would react to being handed a DL and CPL by immediately drawing and pointing their gun at the driver or other overreaction. I could be wrong, but I suspect the risk of that is a little higher for civilians than off duty LEO's. I have in fact had LEO friends whose advice to avoid that was 'don't volunteer that you are carrying for the typical stop where you just set in the seat and get your ticket/warning/whatever; do inform if anything happens where the officer is going to discover the gun, e.g. getting told to get out of the car'. I drive like an old woman, so I don't have any first hand experience :-).

2)A traffic stop is pretty unambiguous, but I'd wonder about other situations. A couple of actual examples:
-I'm driving down a rural road and see an officer at a fresh wreck. I stop and roll down the window and ask if he wants help (he did, gave me a maglite (it was dark) and had me direct traffic while he did other things)
-I'm walking the dog and see a bunch of fresh expended shotgun shells in the park. I swing by the storefront office and poke my head in and say 'FYI, there are a bunch of empty shells by the picnic shelter'.
-there is a bad wreck on the interstate )unconscious people ejected from the vehicle, etc. Amazing amount of dust, visibility still only 100 ft when the first officer arrives a few minutes later. I ran up and gave him the location and number of the injured.
-I open the garage door to back out the car and see a patrol car with lights on setting by the drive. A car had gone off the embankment w/o us noticing. The officer was having trouble getting up the steep bank; I leaned down and helped pull him up.

Do I have to start each of those encounters with 'Officer, I have a CPL and am armed today'? Particularly for the third one, it didn't seem like the most important info to get across.

I don't really have strong opinions on the issue (and my LEO friends are mostly of the 'I assume everyone is armed anyway' persuasion), but I do think that it's a rule that ought to be interpreted pretty leniently for any of the above situations.

The third paragraph of the Ohio Revised Code section 2923.126 (A) begins as such:

If a licensee is stopped for a law enforcement purpose and if the licensee is carrying a concealed handgun at the time the officer approaches, the licensee shall promptly inform any law enforcement officer who approaches the licensee while stopped that the licensee has been issued a concealed handgun license and that the licensee currently is carrying a concealed handgun.....

In order for notification to be required in Ohio I would assume that all the elements listed there would have to be present:
1. You are stopped by a police officer
2. You are stopped for a law enforcement purpose
3. You are carrying a concealed handgun at the time the officer approaches

None of the situations you describe would trigger notification here, as far as I understand the law here.

Traffic accidents are not law enforcement stops. You approached the police, they did not approach you.

[TC215]

"Maybe I'm missing something, but why wouldn't an individual notify an officer that they're armed when stopped by a LEO?"

A couple of thoughts from the civilian peanut gallery (my state doesn't require notification):

1)I think the CPL info is delivered with license plate data now, but prior to that you's hear the occasional horror story where a new/fearful/not used to CCW officer would react to being handed a DL and CPL by immediately drawing and pointing their gun at the driver or other overreaction. I could be wrong, but I suspect the risk of that is a little higher for civilians than off duty LEO's. I have in fact had LEO friends whose advice to avoid that was 'don't volunteer that you are carrying for the typical stop where you just set in the seat and get your ticket/warning/whatever; do inform if anything happens where the officer is going to discover the gun, e.g. getting told to get out of the car'. I drive like an old woman, so I don't have any first hand experience :-).

That's entirely state-specific. It's attached to DL data in my state, which is not automatically pulled when a plate is ran.

[RJflyer]

No duty to inform in my state. It doesn’t bother me as a LEO. I assume everyone I deal with is armed...and in my area CCW is very prolific. It’s a non issue in my opinion and if I were an Ohio LEO I’d wish the FOP would devote their efforts to other issues.

[Lon]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I personally think informing the Officer may be a smart thing to do in certain circumstances. I have been stopped a few times in the last 25 years and always inform. But being a smart thing to do and being a crime if you don’t is what I have a hard time with. Along with how poorly the law is written.

Lon, very good job on the testimony. It was fun to watch. You didn't just give testimony, you taught a class!

Thanks. I was nervous when I started by fell back into teaching mode once I got started.

[NH Shooter]

Not required here in NH.

My personal philosophy is that I will fully inform that I'm licensed to carry, that pistol is behind my right hip and then ask the officer how he/she wants to proceed if I'm asked to exit the vehicle. Until then I keep my hands where they can be seen and will respond accordingly if I am asked if I am armed.

Thanks @Lon for taking the time to state your POV!

[deputyG23]

I have been stopped four times in thirty years and was carrying my duty weapon off duty each time.
Window comes down, dome light goes on, hands go on the steering wheel, and I inform the officer that I am off duty and am carrying on my right side and my badge and ID are in my left rear pocket. His instructions are then followed to the letter. No issues ever.

[TheRoland]

I've been told by acquaintances from northeastern states that notification there would most likely amp up the tension during the encounter, rather than reduce it.

As a Northeasterner, yeah.

[HCM]

This law changed when I was in the academy. I forget the totality old standards, but @Rex G might remember them. Personally, I think the law was a big improvement. There is absolutely no reason you should need a license to carry it in your vehicle.

I agree in principle but the effect in reality is people who are too lazy to get an LTC or have an LTC but are too lazy to carry the gun leave them in the car full time, unsecured, and sooner or later they get stolen. About 1/2 or more of the guns we recover are stolen.

A year or two back we had a local who left their unlocked car running while they ran into the convenience store. Of course it got stolen and there was an unsecured handgun in the center console. The thief used the “car gun” to kill the Good Samaritan that followed them from the scene of the theft while in the phone with 911. We had contacted the suspect a couple days prior as a suspicious person But he had no wants or contraband.

As for the notification thing, LTC Information comes up on the state level checks and in Texas I just assume everyone is armed or has access to a gun so it’s not a big deal.

We do teach our officers to notify when stopped or contacted by other LE in plainclothes or off duty for DeConfliction purposes.