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Thread: Nevada Highway Patrol Transitions to SIG P320

  1. #11
    10.3" Master Race TGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonInWA View Post
    I'm also a bit surprised, but on some reflection, the combination of the influential M17/M18 contracts wins and the Lego-like combinations of grip modules, slides/barrels and chamberings has been compelling. Out of the three, my thought is that having relatively inexpensive grip modules that really do affect the index has probably been the most significant.
    Jon,

    My observation has been that many of the departments running metal framed SIGs are simply switching over to the striker option from the same manufacturer. Most of the departments running other guns are still running them.

    What departments do we know of are actually selecting the P320 because of the unique features of the P320 that are not present in other striker fired polymer options?

    What's the percentage of departments switching over to the P320 who did not previously carry SIG metal framed DA guns?

    My suspicion is that PDs are saying, "It's time for metal framed DA guns to go away", and so they're swapping to the P320 out of convenience......not really due to the MHS program, any unique attributes that the P320 offers over Glocks, M&Ps, or whatever. Maybe I'm too cynical, but I highly doubt that most PDs adopting them are doing so because of the relatively inexpensive grip modules affecting index. They want a cheap striker fired plastic gun, and it's an easy solution from a supplier and support network they're already working in. It could be a rebadged SD9, and most of them would probably still buy it.
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    Jon,

    My observation has been that many of the departments running metal framed SIGs are simply switching over to the striker option from the same manufacturer. Most of the departments running other guns are still running them.

    What departments do we know of are actually selecting the P320 because of the unique features of the P320 that are not present in other striker fired polymer options?

    What's the percentage of departments switching over to the P320 who did not previously carry SIG metal framed DA guns?

    My suspicion is that PDs are saying, "It's time for metal framed DA guns to go away", and so they're swapping to the P320 out of convenience......not really due to the MHS program, any unique attributes that the P320 offers over Glocks, M&Ps, or whatever. Maybe I'm too cynical, but I highly doubt that most PDs adopting them are doing so because of the relatively inexpensive grip modules affecting index. They want a cheap striker fired plastic gun, and it's an easy solution from a supplier and support network they're already working in. It could be a rebadged SD9, and most of them would probably still buy it.
    I will say that modularity/adaptability to different hand sizes is a major selling point for us. It's a requirement for us for our next pistol. I had suggested an approved roster of firearms, but was overruled. An adaptable, modular grip at least gets beyond the "one size fits all' crap.

  3. #13
    10.3" Master Race TGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMC View Post
    I will say that modularity/adaptability to different hand sizes is a major selling point for us.
    Something that is offered by literally every single polymer service handgun these days. Glock, M&P, Walther, HK P30/VP9, FN, etc.
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    Something that is offered by literally every single polymer service handgun these days. Glock, M&P, Walther, HK P30/VP9, FN, etc.
    Oh I agree. Some do it better than others, but virtually every manufacturer has some degree of modularity built in at this point.

    Some of the points John raised are very important here.....specifically the "pulling the trigger to field strip" issue. And as much as I like the Gen 5 Glocks...its a legitimate criticism.

  5. #15
    Pre 9/11, Customs had a rash of in-office/port level “negligent discharges”. Led to a bunch of wall posters being pushed out to the field on how to properly field strip the Glock. Rumor has it that when a new pistol was being considered for brand new, stand-up CBP, that a high level manager made it known to the selection committee that any gun requiring the trigger to be pullled for disassembly was out. Hello P2000 ! Now that they are swinging back to a Glock, hopefully the troops will be well trained.

  6. #16
    Member John Hearne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    Something that is offered by literally every single polymer service handgun these days. Glock, M&P, Walther, HK P30/VP9, FN, etc.
    I have not handled all of the brands you listed but, from what I've seen, the "small" offerings from Sig are legitimately small. I'm not aware of a double stack frame that is going to be smaller than what you can get with the P320.
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inspector71 View Post
    Pre 9/11, Customs had a rash of in-office/port level “negligent discharges”. Led to a bunch of wall posters being pushed out to the field on how to properly field strip the Glock. Rumor has it that when a new pistol was being considered for brand new, stand-up CBP, that a high level manager made it known to the selection committee that any gun requiring the trigger to be pullled for disassembly was out. Hello P2000 ! Now that they are swinging back to a Glock, hopefully the troops will be well trained.
    Pulling the trigger for disassembly is an issue in all organizations but was not the deciding factor in CBPs prior duty gun.

    Customs inspections was combined with INS Inspe tions and USBP when CBP was created. US BP traditionally dominated the INS firearms program and US BP was significantly larger than the US customs inspection branch, even before including the INS inspectors.

    Border patrol was already in the process of transitioning to the HKUSP compact LEM when the merger occurred. INS had begun transitioning plainclothes agents and officers to the LEM in 1999.

    Glocks were a POW option for INS and border patrol prior to the transition to 40 caliber. The big ding on Glock from the USBP point of view (at that time) was the lack of a second strike capability.

  8. #18
    Member JonInWA's Avatar
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    I simply see the major players for organizational contracts as being Glock, SIG and Smith & Wesson. I'm a little surprised that Beretta hasn't made more inroads with the APX, and I'm pretty dismissive of FN-too many issues, too little depth, and at least perceptually capricious long term platform commitment and support.

    Walter seems more oriented towards the shooting sport venues than to LEO/.mil applications, at least to my perceptions in the US.

    HK's another surprise, particularly with the lowering price points for the domestically produced P30 line, and the intrinsic price points of the German-produced VP lines. While there was apparently some organizational reluctance due to HK's paddle magazine releases versus button releases, I think that the real issue may have been for the resource times needed for detailed disassemblies and reassemblies for annual programmed inspections.

    I think that the HK VP and P30 platforms provide the most individual tunability-but at the cost of more components and time. The SIG solution is quick and easy.

    The point that John Hearne makes about the ease of cleaning the trigger group module via ultrasound is huge; I suspect that that takes the resource time required per gun close to, if not bettering Glock's. And from what I've picked up anecdotally, trigger group issues are resolved by the mothership simply swapping out trigger groups en bloc, as opposed to encouraging actual armorer dinking around at the individual component level to achieve necessary repairs-HCM and lwt16 (and other willing to chime in), is this what you're experiencing?

    Best, Jon

  9. #19
    Site Supporter KevH's Avatar
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    This thread prompted me to call the latest SIG factory rep and he is going to stop by my department later today for an introduction.

    Anything you guys want me to ask him?

  10. #20
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    Man some of you guys work for some pretty sophisticated departments and agencies.

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