I'm pretty sure Oklahoma HP issued the P220 at some point and possibly the P226 but I don't remember for sure. It's been a long time since I've been around any OHP.
I'm pretty sure Oklahoma HP issued the P220 at some point and possibly the P226 but I don't remember for sure. It's been a long time since I've been around any OHP.
“If you know the way broadly you will see it in everything." - Miyamoto Musashi
I own a pair of Cougars (9mm and .40) and yeah, they're unfortunately the PX4 before Beretta perfected the design. Sleek, sexy, but not at all stake-your-life reliable.Originally Posted by CWM11B
State Government Attorney | Beretta, Glock, CZ & S&W Fan
We're probably saying essentially the same thing about the 8357. Other than changing the rollmarking from "8040" to "8357" I literally think that that's all they did. They used the 8040's sights, calibrated for .40 for the .357 8357, which was ridiculous (and didn't work well....), and there were never any optional or aftermarket sights for the 8357 that would have corrected the POA/POI issue to the best of my knowledge.
The primary issues HC HP encountered with the 8357 had to do with extraction and jams. BUSA first tried specifying that NC HP utilize different cartridges; when that didn't work, BUSA then modified the extractor assembly, I believe attempting a double-nested extractor spring-which didn't work either.
My understanding is that NC HP walked away from the Cougar platform at that point.
Lubrication with the Cougars, especially with the .40 8040 and .357 SIG 8357 was huge. Beretta persisted in specified using only oil as a lubricant, which on the reciprocation surfaces of the rotating barrel, cam tooth and breech areas tended to evaporate/migrate/cook off-at which point the gun would solidly lock up, and you couldn't free it up until either it sufficiently cooled down or applied brute force to the rear of the slide. Specifying grease or TW25B or similar on these areas probably would have significantly ameliorated the seizing-up issue, but then there were the extraction issues inherent to the 8357.
I had a BNIB 8357 F Cougar (probably surplus from the NC HP production order), so I'm very well acquainted first hand with its issues, which I personally encountered all of the above on mine. I really wanted to like the damned thing-I thought the rotating barrel concept could play exceptionally well with the .357, and the ergos on the Cougar were generally exceptional-much like the SIG P225 (they would even share the same holsters). Unfortunately, it was insufficiently developed, particularly regarding .40 and .357 SIG cartridges. It was also authorized for LAPD in its .45 ACP chambering (designated 8045 as I recall), albeit with an extended barrel (produced by Beretta to meet that requirement), but for what it was, capacity was low, weight was relatively high, so I doubt that all that many were procured by LAPD officers, but I've never seen any hard figures on that. I have not heard of systemic issues with Cougars in 9mm or .45ACP .
As most of you probably already know, Beretta sold/transferred Cougar production machinery and manufacturing to Stoeger in Turkey, who marketed them for years with the Stoegar rollmark.
They then went to the PX4, which pretty much languished for the most part, perhaps unfairly tarnished by being in the shadow of the Cougar, until Ernest Langdon pretty much single-handedly revived interest and sales, and came up with some excellent mods/enhancements.
Apparently there was some significant internal controversy and disaffection between BUSA and Beretta Italy regarding the Cougar, which probably didn't help subsequent fielding and marketing.
Best, Jon
Last edited by JonInWA; 02-25-2020 at 05:52 PM.
Yeah they hated them.
I was under the impression that they also felt BUSA left a lot to be desired from a customer service standpoint.
Curious if their new 320's will have safeties. They had a couple of lives saved from the 92's safety when the bad guys got a hold of the guns.
cc
I have a surplus NC HP marked 92. They definately used them at one time. Per a buddy who was the firearms training Sgt at their academy, they went from revolvers to 92s in 9mm. Unless they did a stint with 96's in between the 92s and the cougars.
I was told the M&P's in 357 were replaced with P226R's though I don't recall if they went DAK or DA/SA.
The cougars were a disaster of "we don't talk about the Cougars" proportions.
I was told the M&P's in 357 were replaced with P226R's though I don't recall if they went DAK or DA/SA. One of the driving forces in the move from the 229 DAK to the M&P was the constant issues with losing 229 grip screws and guns having to be deadline because bubba gorilla'ed the steel grip screws and stripped out the threads in the aluminum frame. in case you were wondering why SIG came out with the E2 grip.
Yep, corrected myself a couple of posts back. They did have the 96 for a period before the Cougars. Who was your bud?`I may know him
My recollection is they mirrored TX DPS HP. revolvers, the SIG P-220s then P-226s in .357 SIG plus a very liberal personally owned weapons policy.
Since we are looking at state agencies it may be fair game to morph it into city agencies that have gone 320, but limit it to the prominent ones, say 500 sworn or larger, of those, the most recent and significant is Milwaukee PD who switched from M&P.
Oh, and back to state agencies, just heard Nevada Highway Patrol went 320 as well
Last edited by CanineCombatives; 02-25-2020 at 08:11 PM.
Chk your PM
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