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Thread: USPc LEM observations

  1. #1
    Site Supporter OlongJohnson's Avatar
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    USPc LEM observations

    Just read through YVK's "Continuously humbled by LEM" thread from 2011. Again. Didn't want to post there and pollute it with my baby-steps early observations. Also, most of that discussion was focused on the P30 when it was the new hotness, and I'm not convinced that shooting the P30 is all that much like shooting a USP of any size. But something became very clear for me tonight.

    I've been focusing on the GP100 lately. A lot (for me) of dry fire with a really quite nice and smooth DA. Liking that gun. It's nestled in its new leather getting snuggly, so I left it in the safe and took the USPc 9mm to the range tonight. It's an LEM that I've gone through, deburring and smoothing the action. No touching the sear/hammer notches, so stock geometry as far as creep, overtravel, etc. It has whatever FPB spring was in it when I got it as an LEM retrofit gun. Don't know whether the FPB spring was left as the light one or changed to the heavy one when the LEM kit was installed. I added the nickel sear spring and match hammer spring, and went with a heavy LEM TRS, to make it a little more like DAO. Same concept as a V-TLG, but with USP parts, not a P30. Overall, pretty happy with the feel of it and the weight of the press.

    I'd taken this USP out previously and been frustrated by shooting low and left, which led to me leaving it alone and focusing on shooting the GP while I worked on DA/SA USP trigger parts. (That project is on hold due to vendor delays.) Tonight, I started with some slow fire, just working the sights and the trigger on the USPc. But shooting slowly, I did a lot of staging the trigger. Even when I tried not to, I probably still did. A few times, I was surprised with how much creep I felt once the wall was reached and pressing through it. But the target was familiar. Not a lot of significantly thrown shots, mostly eating a cluster out of the B8 center, but that cluster was in an oval strung down from the center toward 7 o'clock, not really putting shots in the center. Very consistently. Switched to a new target after 30 rounds and got more of the same, although a smaller cluster, closer to center. Still obviously trending toward 7 o'clock and low.

    Decided I'd had enough of that, and put up a new target for my last three mags. Just put my foot down and went for speed, which for me is cartoonishly slow by the standards of a real shooter. Was at a Shoot Point Blank facility, where a few months ago, they decided to actually enforce a corporate rule against practicing pistol shooting (1-second split speed limit). Not the greatest place to train, but it's really, really close to my house and affordable. There's no restriction on presentations, so I did that. Just singles from a low ready, as fast as I could press out. A little scatter in the first ten rounds, but then it started to tighten up.

    And the surprising thing that led me to type this up: The 7 o'clock stringing disappeared completely and immediately. The shot distribution was centered vertically and horizontally on the target, and after three mags, the center was pretty much eaten away. I seemed to be just as consistent after a little while going fast as I'd been going slow. But going fast, I was more accurate.

    My hypothesis is that going slower led to anticipating the shot. Even when I was trying not to stage the trigger and just roll through it smoothly, there's a long enough creep that when going slow, you will detect it and have time to anticipate. Going faster, I was focused on just sights and grip, not thinking at all about what I was feeling with the trigger.

    A potential second or alternate hypothesis is regarding grip. The strong grip required to avoid an anticipation flinch or relatively random movement in recoil is difficult to sustain. When shooting intentionally slowly, the force of grip will inevitably decay as the trigger is pressed. So if one spends a lot of cumulative time trying to hold the gun steady and not move the sights while pressing the trigger, it's likely that by the time the trigger is pressed, the average grip control level will be less. Whereas a rapid press gives less time for things to fall apart: A strong presentation, strong mental focus on sight picture and controlling movement; no time for things to decay and no extra attention (for me) to spend on feeling what the trigger is doing and having things affected negatively by that feedback.

    Interested in y'all's thoughts on my thoughts.


    As expected, the USP ran flawlessly, even with the WWB ammo that so consistently chokes my Sig M11-A1. It's possible this little plastic thing will send that beautiful machine down the river. Will keep using the Winchester for a case or two, just to verify.

    I find this very encouraging. Will continue to work with it, and get myself to a range that allows practicing actual pistol shooting more often.
    .
    -----------------------------------------
    Not another dime.

  2. #2
    Site Supporter
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    Aug 2012
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    Central Front Range, CO
    Two thoughts:
    1. Yes, I’ve seen the same thing. With a USPc LEM, briskly through the wall results in consistently better groups vs staging the trigger.

    2. The 7 o’clock “wandering” is coming from a less-than-ideal support hand grip and/or a trigger stroke that was not straight back. Every time I saw hits wandering low and towards the support hand side, the error was one or both of those things.

    Perspective: this is based on shooting only an LEM USPc for 120 rds a week for 18 months with pretty rigorous time and accuracy standards. It was educational.

  3. #3
    Your experience was very similar to mine. My first LEM was a USPc as well. When first shooting it was putting up some really nice groups at 25 yards but directly 6" below POA. I took hundreds of rounds to figure out it feels like a SA but I can't treat it as such. Move the trigger to the wall and roll through like a DA is what worked for me.

    Then I changed it to a DA/SA and never looked back, the DA is actually easier for me to shoot than the LEM.

    The USPc is one of my favorite general purpose guns, accurate, incredibly reliable, and carries very well.

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