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Thread: 640-1 advice

  1. #11
    You're asking for advice but you seem pretty set on getting a 640-1 no matter the advice. There's nothing wrong with wanting a 640-1 if your finances allow it. If they don't the 640 no dash should serve just fine.

    I've had a love / hate relationship with our 640-1. It's the first pistol my wife and I bought together. After shooting it the first few times i was ready to sell but my wife was sentimental which led to holding on to it and occasionally breaking it out. With some light customization, experimentation, and a lot of dry fire it has, over time, become a favored shooter. Changes include Taurus grips and painted front sights. Dry fire has smoothed the trigger to custom good. At this point it is old shoe comfortable and can hit the upper A Zone consistently at 25 yards. I wouldn't expect POI to equal POA but with tuning and practice you will know where to hold over, etc. If it's what you really want, go for it...

  2. #12
    Member Moonshot's Avatar
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    I'm really not trying to convince myself to buy the 640-1. I can buy it, or not. I've handled the gun, but not fired it. It seems to be a very nice specimen. Bead blasted, painted front sight, fairly smooth trigger. Nothing that my unskilled eye could identify as troublesome. As I stated before, it could stand to have the trigger rounded and polished (something Denny did to my 642 and now I'm spoiled).

    What got me looking for something like this 640-1 (as opposed to my GP100 or SP101 that I sold) was I wanted something to carry IWB on the off chance that I could no longer carry my preferred Glock. Physical condition or a change in laws might dictate a change in firearms. A wheel gun carried IWB in a belt holster did not need to be an air weight, but my GP was too heavy and my SP was overkill (too much for 5 rounds of .38).

    Again, I could just carry my 642. It's a pussy cat with wad cutters and I am very comfortable loading up with them when the 642 was carried as a 2nd gun. I am somewhat reluctant to carry wad cutters in my primary, however. One of the scenarios that I feel is prudent to prepare for is being forced of the road (this almost happened to my wife several years ago), or otherwise being stuck inside the car and unable to get away. I can foresee a potential need to fire thru the car window - front windshield safety glass or side window tempered glass. Would my wad cutters make it thru with sufficient penetration to stop an attacker? I don't know, but I rather doubt it.

    I've fired enough +P GDs out of my 642 to know it's not that hard to handle, but my shot times do increase and my groups do open up a little. Enough that I prefer the wad cutter in this gun. They are easy to shoot, shoot to my sights, cut a full caliber hole and have plenty of penetration (with the possible exception of thru AG).

    The 640 no dash has enough weight to dampen the GD, but again it's my wife's gun. Yes, she would let me take it if I had to and she would take the air weight, but she handles the heavier 640 better than the 642, so this option is really my last choice. The 640 no dash not being rated for +P is really a side note. S&W did tell me to avoid this, and while I know a few won't cause any issues, I have no idea what was shot thru it before I bought it and again, it's what my wife likes to shoot. I don't want to mess it up for her.

    Finally, if I am going from a Glock to a 5 round wheel gun I would like to carry two. My 642 in my pocket or on my ankle still makes a great 2nd gun while a heavier steel framed gun on my belt loaded with a better hard barrier penetrating round could provide the options I am looking for.

    This thought process, as flawed as it may be, is what led me to look at the 640-1. Will I buy it? I don't know. I think I need to shoot it first. If it shoots to the sights and if I can get it down to somewhere close to $500, I think I'll buy it.

  3. #13
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    I think you’ll buy it, too.

    What the heck, let your wife keep her gun. Nobody here is going to try to talk you *out* of buying a new j-frame. Do you absolutely need it? Probably not. Can you use it, and do you want it? Sounds like a double shot of "yes" to me.

    Welcome to the "j-frame lifestyle," brother moonshot.
    ”But in the end all of these ideas just manufacture new criminals when the problem isn't a lack of criminals.” -JRB

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonshot View Post
    I've fired enough +P GDs out of my 642 to know it's not that hard to handle, but my shot times do increase and my groups do open up a little. Enough that I prefer the wad cutter in this gun. They are easy to shoot, shoot to my sights, cut a full caliber hole and have plenty of penetration (with the possible exception of thru AG).
    So you think it is safe to fire +P loads out of your lighter weight 642 but not your 640?

    As already said, the 640 was introduced as a gun that could handle +P+ loads and stamped that way. Though it is no longer stamped that way, there has been no change in its design to make it less capable. It can certainly handle +P loads. Face it, the person you spoke to at Smith & Wesson had no idea what they were talking about.

  5. #15
    Member Rock185's Avatar
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    Heck, buy the 640-1 if you want it. That's what I'd do

    That being said, I have a '90s era 640 no dash purchased new, a 940 from the same era, and a later 642. I was issued 38 +P for years, and never had the slightest concern in using it in the 640 or 642. The very similar 940 operates at a significantly higher pressure without issue. And outfits like Pinnacle will rechamber .38 J- frames to 9MM if an owner desires. Never an issue with using 38+P in any of my J-Frames........ymmv

    FWIW, My '90s era 640 no dash owners manual indicates that +P will put more stress on the firearm. OK, but I'd hate to have to try to wear out one of my J-frames with 38 +P ammo. I have no doubt my wrist would succumb first.

  6. #16
    Member Moonshot's Avatar
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    I understand my 640 no dash will handle at least some +Ps, but S&W did advice that I not use any. Maybe they were confused, maybe they were being ultra cautious, maybe a lawyer was standing behind the guy I spoke to when I called. Maybe he was full of shit. I have no idea, but I didn't make it up. I don't know what else to say on this. That was the advice I was given.

    I've shot +Ps out if it, just not many, and I did stop after talking to S&W.

    My 642 is marked .38 +P. Is it stronger than my all steel 640 that's not marked for +P? I have no idea. One of my LE friends carries an early 70s vintage M-36 that is very much old school. He has no qualms in loading it with +P Gold Dots or 158 gr +P LSWCHPs and shooting them. Not all the time, but often enough. He has told me more than once I am being way too cautions. He has lost track of how many hot rounds he has thru his M-36 and there is no sign of stretching or other timing problems.

    My biggest hesitation with using my 640 is it's not really mine any more. My wife has claimed it for her own and if I ended up carrying it would need to replace it. That puts me right back to where I am now.

    Perhaps I should have phrased my question better in my OP. The whole point behind looking at another heavier platform was to allow me to carry a round better suited to penetrating auto glass (from the inside out) with sufficient penetration to still go 12" to 18" and stop an assailant. I did not believe my 148 gr wad cutters would do this. I carry Federal Gold Metal Match rounds right now. The GM38A. They are maybe hitting 700 FPS. Maybe. With a tail wind.

    If these rounds will work in my auto glass scenario, then I don't really need a heavier platform to absorb the recoil of a harder hitting round. My wad cutter loaded 642 would suffice, but I have serious doubts about this round working thru auto glass. I know there are some rounds out there that are designed as heavy penetrators, but they are either boutique rounds or not made by a serious manufacturer with .gov contracts, or both.

    So I'm back to what round to carry for better hard barrier penetration, that is manufactured by a major player with .gov contracts. It's not enough that my 642 (or 640) handle the load. I need to be able to practice sufficiently to maintain my skills, and perhaps a heavier platform will make this job easier.

    Believe me, spending $500+ on a gun I may never actually carry on a regular basis is not something I would do "just because". There are other things I want and need, but if this 640-1 (or whatever I end up with) will allow me to put my Glock aside (if I ever need to) and still have a controllable gun with an effective round for a wide variety of realistic scenarios, then it's $500 well spent.

  7. #17
    Site Supporter OlongJohnson's Avatar
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    You have a few months to save your pennies.

    https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....-have-this-one
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    Not another dime.

  8. #18
    Member Moonshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlongJohnson View Post
    You have a few months to save your pennies.

    https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....-have-this-one
    I had an SP101. Actually, more then one. It was a great gun, although mine were never as refined as my Smiths. Triggers were never as good, but maybe they are better now. Anyway, I came to the conclusion that it was too large and too heavy to be a .38 only platform. I've shot magnums out of them (specifically the 180 gr Black Talon) and did not enjoy the experience. I used to call that SP101 my 5-shot derringer, because after two rounds I was through.

    For a while I was only looking at 3" models of whatever revolver I had my sights on, thinking I needed the extra barrel length to offer reliable expansion of whatever HP design I was carrying. Then I came to the conclusion that it didn't matter. I couldn't count on a HP opening up. I needed to worry more about placing the rounds where I wanted, as fast as I could get them there, with sufficient penetration to meet the FBI standard, and in a platform I could practice with frequently and easily carry.

    Shooting wad cutters out of my Denny Reichard tuned 642 has really spoiled me.
    Last edited by Moonshot; 02-24-2020 at 12:49 AM.

  9. #19
    Member Rock185's Avatar
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    Question

    Moonshot, Maybe we over think this stuff sometimes. I know I have. The main thing IMHO is to have a gun, know when to use it, and if shooting becomes necessary, to place shots where they need to be. I carried all kinds of stuff, up to .44 Magnum. As years went by, I guess I mellowed out and now don't lose any sleep over having a particular type firearm, with a particular type of ammunition, etc., etc..

    It occurs to me that if you're looking for a small revolver, of moderate recoil, and if you feel your ammunition may need to perform against auto glass.etc., maybe one of Ruger's little LCRs in 9MM might be worthy of consideration. I mention 9MM because it is the most popular centerfire pistol cartridge on the planet, and as such has likely been the recipient of more R&D than any other current pistol cartridge. Factory ammo is available in a mind boggling array of bullet types, weights, pressure levels, etc. Actual chronographed ballistics of 9MM from 2" and 3" revolvers exceed any major manufacturer .38+P I've tested. I do agree that the SP101, in whatever caliber, is a bit heavy as compared to so many other CCW options.

    As to how to reclaim your 640 from your wife, I got Nuthin' Good Luck!

  10. #20
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    IMHO, if you want a steel centennial as a sometimes carry gun, as a trainer for your aluminum one, and your wife has laid claim to the one you already bought, your path is clear: buy the -1 magnum and drive on. I personally had a -1 magnum and a 60-9 Ladysmith magnum on the counter last year b/c I decided having a steel J for those reasons was reasonable. My 60 is quite a fun little shooter, but I wouldn’t have lost any sleep if I’d decided on the 640-1 instead. Worth it.

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