640-1 advice

[Moonshot]

Looking to pick up a like-new 640-1 no lock. Purpose of the firearm would be for IWB carry at 4 o’clock should I not be able to carry my preferred G26 in the same location (injury, new laws, whatever). It would likely be loaded with Gold Dot 135gr +Ps. I have no intention of loading it with magnums. I don’t have a lot of faith in a 2” barrel allowing for consistent HP expansion, but at least the 640-1 has the weight to dampen the recoil, making the potential for expansion worth the effort.

I could use my 640 no dash in this role, but it’s not rated for +P. Limited use of +P is likely ok, but S&W said no, so I am reluctant to load it up with the GDs. I could also use my 642-1 worked over by the late Denny Reichard. It’s rated for +P but loaded with wad cutters.

The +P GDs don’t recoil much in my 642, but enough to slow down my follow up shots and open my groups more than I want. I seldom carry the 642, and if I do it’s usually as a 2nd gun (to be given to my wife or daughters in an emergency - another reason it’s loaded with wad cutters). The 640 no dash is also loaded with wad cutters and its become my wife’s gun (but almost never carried by her).

The 640-1 would fill a niche, but I don’t know what the asking price is yet. I suspect it will be rather high - I am expecting at least $700 and likely higher.

I’m not independently wealthy and there are other items I am looking to purchase. Would you all invest in the 640-1 or would you use either my 640 no dash or my 642 in this roll? I may never carry a wheel gun as primary, but I want the option in place and vetted to work (tested, practiced with, holster, speed loaders, etc) before I “need” it.

Thanks for any advise.

[Half Moon]

I'm surprised S&W said no. My recollection is the earliest 640 no dashes came stamped +p+ inside the cylinder window and later serial numbers were still considered good for +p at a minimum. I'd double check that at the Smith and Wesson forum but I think the no dash is probably fine.

[Moonshot]

I'm surprised S&W said no. My recollection is the earliest 640 no dashes came stamped +p+ inside the cylinder window and later serial numbers were still considered good for +p at a minimum. I'd double check that at the Smith and Wesson forum but I think the no dash is probably fine.

I checked with S&W directly. Gave them my serial #. It’s not rated for +P, it’s not marked and they advised against +P usage. I understand a little usage is likely ok and their advise may just be their CYA, but I tend to defer to the manufacturer’s recommendations. I figure they built it and know more than I.

[O4L]

I would not give $700 for a 640-1 especially if I already had a 640 and 642, but I am frugal and cheap.

I have carried a 640-3, with the infernal lock removed, for about a year and a half. I got a great deal on it and as much as I like it I would not consider paying anywhere near $700 for another 640 unless it was the Pro version.

[Totem Polar]

640s are strong little guns. I am having a hard time imagining casual use of the GDHP 135 load wearing one out.

I’ve been a fairly die-hard revolver guy for decades, and I’ve spent a good bit of time down the "+P research rabbit hole."

BLUF: I’d be more worried about wearing my hands and wrists out than the early 90s-era 640. If you are shooting enough GDHP to permanently junk the gun, you can afford a second one.

(There’s been a ton of discussion over the years around old-school .38 loads, today’s loads, etc. I’d seriously just use the 640 you have. If I could still see standard j-frame sights well, I’d still be shooting a 640 no dash in classes. JMO)

ETA: y’know what? I’m actually going to go so far as to say that S&W is full of shit on this. I know that’s a bold statement coming from joe anonymous on the internet, but think about this for a second: that GDHP load was designed at the request of the NYPD specifically to use in the short barrel snubs authorized for backup/plainclothes duty. What do you think was the number one gun in question? I’m no east coast cop, and even I personally know a guy who carried a 640 for over 2 decades before retiring to a second gig policing beaches in Florida. I do not personally know anyone who carried one of the relatively rare SPNYs for the same amount of time. The whole idea of the 135 GDHP +P and the .38-only 640 being incompatible really doesn’t hold water—considering the origin of the load.

If you want a 640-1 for the pinned front sight or extra 1/4" barrel, go for it, but if you’re just looking for permission to carry the GDHP in what you’ve got, I’ll give it to you. You’re welcome.

[Moonshot]

If you want a 640-1 for the pinned front sight or extra 1/4" barrel, go for it, but if you’re just looking for permission to carry the GDHP in what you’ve got, I’ll give it to you. You’re welcome.

That made me laugh. Thanks.

[deputyG23]

I checked with S&W directly. Gave them my serial #. It’s not rated for +P, it’s not marked and they advised against +P usage. I understand a little usage is likely ok and their advise may just be their CYA, but I tend to defer to the manufacturer’s recommendations. I figure they built it and know more than I.

CYA is exactly what their response is. I have a '49 M&P that I would have no issue carrying 158 grain +P LHP rounds in. S&W rated the gun in its period advertisements for the 38-44 cartridge.
I also have a early '70s M60 that is loaded with the same 158 grain load mentioned earlier. I cannot imagine any normal person shooting enough +P in one of these little devils to break it. My hands and wrists would poop the bed first, most likely.
Carrying it with +P rounds and shooting a cylinder full or two a year of those won't hurt anything.

[Ed L]

ETA: y’know what? I’m actually going to go so far as to say that S&W is full of shit on this. I know that’s a bold statement coming from joe anonymous on the internet, but think about this for a second: that GDHP load was designed at the request of the NYPD specifically to use in the short barrel snubs authorized for backup/plainclothes duty. What do you think was the number one gun in question? I’m no east coast cop, and even I personally know a guy who carried a 640 for over 2 decades before retiring to a second gig policing beaches in Florida. I do not personally know anyone who carried one of the relatively rare SPNYs for the same amount of time. The whole idea of the 135 GDHP +P and the .38-only 640 being incompatible really doesn’t hold water—considering the origin of the load.

I agree with this. The very first 640's were marked good for +P+. They may have stopped marking it as such, but have not changed the gun's construction. For a while .38 J-frames have been known as being able to fire +P .38 loads.

[pettypace]

Somewhere in Sixguns, Keith praises the strength of the J-frame S&W and writes about putting 500 rounds of .38/44 ammo through a Centennial with no ill effects on the gun. The 640 is probably stronger than Keith's Centennial and the Gold Dots are certainly lighter than his .38/44's.

[Moonshot]

The consensus seems to be I can shoot at least some hot .38s out of my old 640. That's good to know, but one concern of mine with this practice is just how many can I shoot before I cause problems, and what kind of problems would this cause? I bought the gun used, so I have no idea what was shot thru the gun before I got it, and I am not smart enough regarding revolvers to know what to look for to see if something is in need of attention.

The down side of using my old 640 is I would have to ask my wife if I can have it back. It's her gun and she likes it.

On the plus side, my estimated price for that 640-1 was off. I can get it for between $500 and $550. The action is very nice (although the trigger could use some rounding and polishing) and the lockup seems very tight. I have not shot it, so I don't know if it shoots to POA. I need to see if I can test fire it. If POA = POI with my carry ammo, I may have to buy it. Just because.