Page 8 of 10 FirstFirst ... 678910 LastLast
Results 71 to 80 of 95

Thread: Tactical Turtle

  1. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post
    I have to agree with Gabe, Proctor, Stoeger etc etc that the upright head is most efficient and offers the best view of the world. That's pretty logical.

    I have never seen anyone quantify with a timer and scores the difference it made across a course of fire. We generally look for that in evaluating gear and methods. Just sayin'

    Does this appear that Leatham is looking through the center of his eye socket or not? I've watched a lot of tape of him. This is his normal.

    Attachment 48963


    Would he have been a more successful competitor had he changed his facial position? Kind of hard to imagine that isn't it?

    I think there are degrees of turtling and arguments tend to focus on the more extreme caricatures of the position.

    I think I may hunch my shoulders a bit from long habits built in the '90's. I perceive to be able to winch down more tension on the gun for a stronger platform (which Leatham is a strong proponent of FWIW) that way but I don't have gauges on it to know for sure.

    Attachment 48964

    The excellent instructor at this class suggested I try getting my head up more. Yeah, I've worked on that and have not found that to be helpful. At all.

    In the scheme of things, I will put more work into my grip (such as never muffing as in the pic above) and trigger press than extending my neck upwards away from my shoulders.
    In my view, head position and neck position is less of an issue than shoulder tension and shrugging with your traps. I find that when I start shrugging my shoulders up it introduces a small degree of vertical inconsistency into my index. It is one extra movement that I can potentially mess up.

  2. #72
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Midwest
    Quote Originally Posted by txdpd View Post
    Or you could read the entire statement and if you can’t get sarcasm just ignore it.

    So serious.
    I am pretty literal minded and written text often lacks the same subtle indicators as spoken language, hence why I asked.

    Let's change it from a handgun to a long gun. Do we have the same concerns with the lack of available head movement? I'm assuming that a "heads up" position and a cheek weld aren't compatible.
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.

  3. #73
    Looking for gun related podcasts on Stitcher, this picture comes up. Name:  268x0w.jpg
Views: 342
Size:  17.8 KB

  4. #74
    Member GearFondler's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    That's impressive... Dual bicep cheek welds. Tactical AF!

  5. #75
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Western Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by HopetonBrown View Post
    Looking for gun related podcasts on Stitcher, this picture comes up. Name:  268x0w.jpg
Views: 342
Size:  17.8 KB
    I wonder how his tendonitis is doing these days...………..

  6. #76
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Dallas
    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post

    Let's change it from a handgun to a long gun. Do we have the same concerns with the lack of available head movement? I'm assuming that a "heads up" position and a cheek weld aren't compatible.
    Same concerns

    Name:  costaturtle.jpg
Views: 316
Size:  50.7 KB

    I get that this is Costa taking it to a ridiculous degree of posing in for a glamour shot (posing not being a poser). But there is a whole lot of unnecessary movement to get out of that turtle position to look around.
    Whether you think you can or you can't, you're probably right.

  7. #77
    I don't know exactly what degree of rolled-up shoulders and lowered chin defines Tactical Turtleing.

    It seems to me that there are far too many good instructors (who tend toward the highest end of the distribution of real-world combat experience) who turtle to some degree; perhaps we shouldn't simply take what USPSA shooters do as sacrosanct?

    Pat Rogers, Paul Howe, Shrek, Chuck Pressburg, Tom Spooner, Kyle Lamb, are just some that come immediately to mind.

    Maybe it's simply because these guys are using rifles as primary weapons and never developed anything approaching USPSA GM level pistol shooting ability? On the other hand, maybe we shouldn't chalk up their pistol shooting technique as having nothing whatever to do with combat effectiveness?

    I honestly don't really know how to think about this.

    I probably turtle a little bit. I'm not in a big hurry to stop and emulate the USPSA shooters.

  8. #78
    Tactical Nobody Guerrero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Milwaukee
    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    EDIT: here's a David Yamane quote that popped up on my FB feed: "What does it mean when nearly everyone who has more experience, expertise, and knowledge on a topic arrives at a substantially different opinion than I do?"
    .sig-worthy
    "The victor is not victorious if the vanquished does not consider himself so."
    ― Ennius

  9. #79
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Western Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by txdpd View Post
    Same concerns

    Name:  costaturtle.jpg
Views: 316
Size:  50.7 KB

    I get that this is Costa taking it to a ridiculous degree of posing in for a glamour shot (posing not being a poser). But there is a whole lot of unnecessary movement to get out of that turtle position to look around.
    Why is that rifle so ridiculously low on his shoulder/chest?

  10. #80
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Midwest
    Quote Originally Posted by txdpd View Post
    Same concerns

    .. But there is a whole lot of unnecessary movement to get out of that turtle position to look around.
    So how does one maintain situational awareness with a long gun, or must we pick proper shooting technique or SA but can't have both?

    Or is it, perhaps, a non-issue due to the mental portion of tunnel vision and the physical movements needed to actually scan through the "tunnel" meaning peripheral vision isn't there regardless of if it's blocked or not.

    How many people training for a prairie dog heads up approach can and will maintain it under incoming fire? Is there a method to train out of that natural reaction that's been shown to be effective? If we're assuming nths degrees of efficiency in the shooting mechanics matter outside of competition, what efficiency is given up by reverting to a method not trained?
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •