Tactical Turtle

[Yung]

Oh, I think I recognize that gentleman. It's Brian Wang of Monarch Defense. That post is about a year old.

I learned of his existence last year when an ex-coworker took a training class along with his girlfriend somewhere here in Arizona, and I was curious as to who the instructor was.

I haven't met Mr. Wang myself, but AAPI folks in this realm are few enough that they stand out to me, and he is the only one I know of that advertises ESL accommodations for Mandarin.

[Alpha Sierra]

but AAPI folks in this realm are few enough that they stand out to me, and he is the only one I know of that advertises ESL accommodations for Mandarin.

Wut?

[Alpha Sierra]

However, when doing the turtle you have to wear a sweet, sweet boonie hat because it's soooooo operator as fuck.

It's a rule.

You forgot the tactical Barbour coat

[Guerrero]

Wut?

Translation: dude speaks Chinese

[RevolverRob]

I naturally turtle; No neck + awe inspiring broad shoulders all but dictate it. That's not true. I have no neck and broad shoulders, but they aren't awe-inspiring, more God-like.

I don't think the turtle gives us a lot and folks who do it tend to run their arms at FULLLLLLL extension with elbows locked. Which is a really good way to get tendonitis and force all of the recoil control into the wrists, as opposed to the forearm, resulting in general pain from shooting.

The ToddG quote, "Most shooting stance is happenstance." summarizes for me that any "stance" discussion begins and ends with, "Can you get the gun pointed in the right direction and get bullets on target as quickly as possible?" "Yes?" "Good stance."

Five minutes of USPSA Match Footage will show you competitors firing shots on one leg and leaned halfway over. Five minutes of body cam footage of police shootings reveals the same. The turtle tends to make you slower and less flexible when used. I don't see a lot of 'tactical turtle' in ECQC footage either.

This all leads me to believe that the "turtling", like most discussions of stance, are academic at best and frequently irrelevant in practice. The fact that practical shooting sports, reality-grounded full contact simunition training, and real full blown shooting events never seem to show someone all turtled up supports that idea.

[Clusterfrack]

There's a couple guys in my area extolling the virtues of the tactical turtle (see screencap below for their reasoning). Please share your counterpoints.

Attachment 48888

[FACEPALM]

Not this shit again. If the top competitive pistol shooters don't do something, there better be a demonstrable reason to ignore that fact.

Is this dude a top 10 USPSA or IPSC shooter? A GM? Why does he think he is qualified to give advice on how to shoot a handgun? Maybe he knows how to fight with a gun tactically, but that doesn't make him an expert on the shooting part. In fact, his turtle stance pretty much tells us he isn't an expert.

EDIT: here's a David Yamane quote that popped up on my FB feed: "What does it mean when nearly everyone who has more experience, expertise, and knowledge on a topic arrives at a substantially different opinion than I do?"

[RevolverRob]

Do I really need my shoulders and neck locked down to fire a 9mm Glock?

I mean a .40, sure? But that's because I'm expecting the KB.

Recoil control issues on service-sized handguns are overblown. Get high enough on the gun and squeeze it firmly. It won't go anywhere. Sub-compact buggers can be more difficult, but they aren't crazy hard. If someone is having trouble with gripping the gun, drop it lower or I advise them to focus on grip training and strength building before fucking with anything else.

You don't see turtling from multiple world record holders, but they do all tend to have forearms, wrists, and hands that look like they could bend horseshoes. That tells us something, doesn't it?

[Clusterfrack]

You don't see turtling from multiple world record holders, but they do all tend to have forearms, wrists, and hands that look like they could bend horseshoes. That tells us something, doesn't it?

Maria Gushchina: She took 5th place overall IPSC Production Euro championships 2016, among many other wins. She's stacked, but not very jacked. Doesn't need to turtle to control her gun.

[Trooper224]

Translation: dude speaks Chinese

I thought it just meant he served fruit salad with oranges.

[Alpha Sierra]

EDIT: here's a David Yamane quote that popped up on my FB feed: "What does it mean when nearly everyone who has more experience, expertise, and knowledge on a topic arrives at a substantially different opinion than I do?"

LOL: https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/2...al-advantages/