Tactical Turtle

[Redhat]

You mean people are discussing shooting on a shooting discussion board?!

I personally wish this sub-forum had more good discussions...it seems most of the traffic is on "semi-auto pistols"

[Hot Cereal]

That was a sudden turn.

I figured I'd add my $.02.

[BigT]

Who cares if someone turtles or not? Can they shoot? If it works for them who cares. So much bullshit gets argued about on this forum its hilarious.

I can open a bottle of wine with a brick. Its a shitty way to do it but the bottle will be open. Its not the technique I suggest when people ask me though.


'Pistol-forum.com for teachers and students of the pistol" Its right there in the name of the site. The whole thing is ,and has pretty much always has been, about getting better at shooting pistols. Down to the tiniest of nuances.

[BehindBlueI's]

If tunnel vision is a thing, shouldn't we try not to impede rotation of the head to maximize the field of view.

Before I make a lengthier response here, are you saying you don't think tunnel vision is a thing?

[spinmove_]

I can open a bottle of wine with a brick. Its a shitty way to do it but the bottle will be open. Its not the technique I suggest when people ask me though.


'Pistol-forum.com for teachers and students of the pistol" Its right there in the name of the site. The whole thing is ,and has pretty much always has been, about getting better at shooting pistols. Down to the tiniest of nuances.

One of my favorite personal mottos is:

“The devil is in the details...and I’m here to do exorcisms.”

[Hambo]

For those who haven't seen it, here is the first in a brief series of highlights from attending Mr. White's class in January 2019, recorded by Mr. Correia and crew. He addresses some portions of stance relevant to this thread. About 5:00 to 6:42.

If I want to see my sights, my glasses dictate my head position. The rest falls into place based on my high center of gravity.

I also found that all that shit went straight out the window during my first altercation, where I wound up down on one knee shooting back over my shoulder, single handed, at a moving target.

We need to practice "bent over kneeling, hoping that the car catches incoming rounds" more often.

[JHC]

Jerry M convinced me the turtle response is a net disadvantage in shooting accurately and quickly. I consciously try not to do this.

Moving your head at same time moving the pistol and sights around adds a complexity into process of getting sights and eyes aligned on target.

I have to agree with Gabe, Proctor, Stoeger etc etc that the upright head is most efficient and offers the best view of the world. That's pretty logical.

I have never seen anyone quantify with a timer and scores the difference it made across a course of fire. We generally look for that in evaluating gear and methods. Just sayin'

Does this appear that Leatham is looking through the center of his eye socket or not? I've watched a lot of tape of him. This is his normal.

Attachment 48963


Would he have been a more successful competitor had he changed his facial position? Kind of hard to imagine that isn't it?

I think there are degrees of turtling and arguments tend to focus on the more extreme caricatures of the position.

I think I may hunch my shoulders a bit from long habits built in the '90's. I perceive to be able to winch down more tension on the gun for a stronger platform (which Leatham is a strong proponent of FWIW) that way but I don't have gauges on it to know for sure.

Attachment 48964

The excellent instructor at this class suggested I try getting my head up more. Yeah, I've worked on that and have not found that to be helpful. At all.

In the scheme of things, I will put more work into my grip (such as never muffing as in the pic above) and trigger press than extending my neck upwards away from my shoulders.

[lwt16]

I also found that all that shit went straight out the window during my first altercation, where I wound up down on one knee shooting back over my shoulder, single handed, at a moving target.
.

Yeah, same here. My OIS last year was nothing like range work at all.

There's pics of me shooting on a static range and my natural stance is turtle-ish. There's pics of me running and gunning and no turtle to be found. There's pics of me engaging in sims and there's some turtle....pics of me chasing suspects with pistol out preparing to shoot and there's no turtle-ish pose.

So for me, it varies wildly dependent on the environment I'm working in. I do find that when I overcome it on the range when I am just working on first shot times, I shave tenths here and there.

[revchuck38]

If I want to see my sights, my glasses dictate my head position. The rest falls into place based on my high center of gravity.

This is me too. Probably through luck, my head is upright when the front sight is in focus, just about dead-center of my progressive lenses.

[txdpd]

Before I make a lengthier response here, are you saying you don't think tunnel vision is a thing?

Or you could read the entire statement and if you can’t get sarcasm just ignore it.

So serious.