Tactical Turtle

[Darth_Uno]

How many people training for a prairie dog heads up approach can and will maintain it under incoming fire? Is there a method to train out of that natural reaction that's been shown to be effective? If we're assuming nths degrees of efficiency in the shooting mechanics matter outside of competition, what efficiency is given up by reverting to a method not trained?

Almost zero. My experience is (not enough) force-on-force training, and a small bit of paintball and airsoft. When you have rounds headed your way, nobody busts off the X with chest out, shoulders back.

[Clusterfrack]

In the airsoft FoF work I've done, most people duck. I found that I got shot a lot less when I used my shooting skills and shot the other people first, multiple times, and in the right places. I didn't get shot in the face, but I did get shot in the dickhole, and that hurt. A lot.

[Irelander]

I have been trying to not turtle so much lately and trying to figure out why I turtle. I find that my natural ingrained index has my elbows bent a little and my sights aligned a little lower than my natural standing posture eye alignment. So I have to turtle my head down some to get on the sights. I have been trying to change this and move the sights to my eyes and not to some arbitrary index.

[GearFondler]

... but I did get shot in the dickhole, and that hurt. A lot.

There you go... Should have kept your head down.

[Clusterfrack]

In the airsoft FoF work I've done, most people duck. I found that I got shot a lot less when I used my shooting skills and shot the other people first, multiple times, and in the right places. I didn't get shot in the face, but I did get shot in the dickhole, and that hurt. A lot.

I found a pic from that FoF training. I look slightly turtled, but not much. My hand was fucked up and my Johnson was on fire, so I think I can justify a little turtling?

[HopetonBrown]

but I did get shot in the dickhole, and that hurt. A lot.

I got a cup just for FoF...

I find that my natural ingrained index has my elbows bent a little

That's a good thing!

[UNM1136]

In the airsoft FoF work I've done, most people duck. I found that I got shot a lot less when I used my shooting skills and shot the other people first, multiple times, and in the right places. I didn't get shot in the face, but I did get shot in the dickhole, and that hurt. A lot.

If I would have been shot in the dickhole, I would be turtling in both senses of the word....my shoulders to my ears, and my dickhead to my spleen. My outie would have become an innie.

pat

[Hambo]

But there is a whole lot of unnecessary movement to get out of that turtle position to look around.

I'm not pushing the "choke yourself out" level of turtle shown in the one pic, but how hard is it to lift your head up?

I didn't get shot in the face, but I did get shot in the dickhole, and that hurt. A lot.

Given a choice, I'd rather get shot in the face than the dickhole.

[Clusterfrack]

Given a choice, I'd rather get shot in the face than the dickhole.

Yep. I agree.

https://youtu.be/ULMS09tBTmc

[Redhat]

On the supposed inefficiency of transitioning from the turtle firing position to scan / assess, wouldn't several things come in to play there? For instance, do you recover to a "ready" position as or before you look or not? I'm not sure I'd be in favor of keeping the weapon at full extension / firing position but I'm open to pros and cons on that. I also think we have the ability to make that decision rather quickly depending on the situation. Do you swing the gun with your head as you look around or just turn your head and so forth? What about non-threats that may be in the equation?