Les Bauer BOSS

[theJanitor]

In all my years of gun hobby-ing, I've yet to find a mainstream company that was infallible, either in product and/or customer service. This includes high-end semi-custom 1911 makers.

I believe there is a lot of validation seeking when it comes to semi-custom 1911's, and a lot of people who would rather look past their actual mediocre experiences to project a sense of wisdom and money-well-spent. I've been both a victim and cheerleader.

I have also recommended smiths who, after servicing me, let their customer service slip. It's been embarrassing and frustrating to send a friend to a closet-asshole.

And it doesn't stop with 1911 makers. A couple years ago, I was having dinner with a buddy, and he got a call from his Ferrari dealership in LA. A warning light had flashed on his 458(?) and the shop said a relay on the transmission was faulty. The repair would be $25K, as Ferrari doesn't sell the part, they sell the trans assembly. After a bit of complaining, my buddy authorized the work, hung up, and told me the service writer said, "What do you expect, you bought a Ferrari. And you should be happy, for this model, we only have to order HALF the transmission."

Some people pay ALOT to be treated like shit

[JonInWA]

I appreciate a quality 1911 (or, for that matter, any quality gun...). In my opinion, the semi-custom 1911 world has spun out of control, especially pricing-wise in relation to discernible value (at least to me). I'm basically seeing a $1K+ rise in price over a 10 year period for the same gun-and often the current ones are decontented.

I'm not against profit, or how anyone else spends their discretionary income. But you better be buying these things for the enjoyment and appreciation of them, because I darned don't see much viable appreciable investment potential out of them. As others have mentioned (and I have personally empirically experienced) in this thread and elsewhere, the semi-custom 1911 resale market is pretty soft. That's a heck of a clue. The rise of 1911 semi-bespoke pricing is a great example of style (and especially marketing) over substance, in my opinion. Adding fuel to the fire are some very credible 1911 users who have attached their name to some of the blinged out/inessential feature-laden pricy semi-bespoke offerings, apparently forgetting that it's more the Indian than the arrow-and arguably the simpler and less bejeweled the arrow, the better the value, if not the overall performance (or perhaps there's a realization that there's simply less personal and/or corporate profit in remaining true to previously espoused and executed values). (And I need to say that a clear exception to this is what Jason Burton did for Todd Green-in that gun, every feature was in fact properly weighed against empirical experience and had a quantifiable justified value).

Then there's the arrogance and apparent outright incompetence of some of the manufacturers. For that matter there's the issue as to what exactly is a manufacturer...I've long suspected that there are very few actual manufacturers, and many cottage industry parts assemblers and tuners (albeit with superb marketing assistance and positioning). And there should be a special place in perdition for manufacturers who are either fundamentally unable to adequately support their efforts that require justified reasonable after-sale adjustments/repairs/replacement-ostensibly part of what the semi-bespoke experience offers is a higher quality firearm, with higher quality components and assembly attention, and a higher quality performance and experience. If that can't be provided, then there are probably numerous third-world countries where they'd be welcomed with open arms and preferential treatment-and they can make whatever they want, albeit at a market-sensitive price accordingly that attaches to such a market...

Okay, rant off. My thoughts on the state of the 1911 are this: For a new gun, Dan Wesson and Alchemy seem to offer a decent value at a relatively decent price (at least relative to the other semi-custom manufacturers). For entry-level 1911s, Colt, Ruger and Springfield Arms-but I'm frankly unsure exactly what constitutes a Colt 1911 these days-I get the impression that they're also more of a parts assembler-but I'd love to be proven wrong on that.

For pretty much anything else, caveat emptor. Take a hard, hard look why you're going down the 1911 path. If it's because of the merits of the single action and/or historic atmosphere that you appreciate, great.

If you want a hard use, accurate, reliable, low maintenance pistol for duty (and most other venues), I think you need to be able to quantify the merits of spending literally thousands more than say, a HK, Glock, Beretta et al. And if you can't objectively do so, but still want a 1911 "just because," that's perfectly fine too. I'd suggest, however, that you be be realistic in your outlook and perspective-and expectations.

With all that said, there is truly can be something special about a 1911-platform pistol that's well designed, well executed, and well supported after you take possession. I appreciate mine-but I'm far more likely to be carrying, and depending on something else...

Best, Jon

[HCM]

I had my doubt's about FO when I grabbed that Staccato. Actually, first time ever I haven't immediately switched to tritium. I actually kind of like the performance of them. Need to get a couple more thousand rounds through it before I'm totally sold.

I am going to go gold bead on this though, give me a point of comparison. Plus, Ken Hackathon is usually square on on those things.

Some one asked me why I didn't just buy a Staccato P Duo and put on a red dot, best answer I had was "this isn't that kind of pistol, this is my old man gun"

My old man gun will absolutely have a red dot on it.

[KevH]

I'm a 1911-loving-fool and I'm not a fan of Les Baer. His frames and slides are a slightly different spec than everyone else and in my humble opinion they're fit extremely tight just so they can say they're fit extremely tight. I particularly don't like his fitting of the barrel which does not lend itself to long-term use. I also have heard from many folks that his customer service sucks. I would recommend spending money elsewhere.

For the "factory custom" guns I generally prefer Wilson Combat, although they are not without fault (though neither are the SACS Springfield Professional which gets lauded much on the internet).

Of the 30+ 1911's I've owned one of my most accurate is a late 1990's pre-Series II Kimber that Dave Berryhill worked on that still has the factory barrel and no slide/frame fitting beyond the factory. It's stupid accurate and soft shooting. It's a $600 gun with about $1k in custom work by a guy that really understood what made these guns work well. It's a gun that was made to feed anything and just plain function. I think most guns being built right now are meant to be photographed and posted on Instagram and featured in artisanal Youtube videos. The problem is guys with with the knowledge Mr. Berryhill had are few and far between.

I'd love to take a look at one of the Alchemy guns, but for the money there are others out there that grab my attention more.

[ECVMatt]

I bought a Premier II in the early 2000's. I saved for quite a while to buy that gun and it represented a lot of hard work and overtime on my part. Shortly after getting it the hammer started to follow the slide forward and sometimes it would go full auto. If it came with a selector to make that happen, well then I would have been pretty stoked, but since it happened randomly it was disconcerting to say the least. I contacted LB and they treated me like a jerk. They implied that I was not qualified to operate the gun correctly. I had to pay to send it to them to get it fixed. When it returned I sold it and was done with them.

I have since gone to the SA TRP, probably not what the OP is looking for, and have never had another problem. I am out of the high-end 1911 game, but my friends still like them. I have recently shot their Nighthawks and a very nice Wilson Combat. They were all flawless and a much better product than my ill-fated Premier II.

I guess that I am I still a bit put off by that experience, but my wife tells me that my strongest quality is harboring a grudge.

Let us know what you end up with.

[HCM]

I bought a Premier II in the early 2000's. I saved for quite a while to buy that gun and it represented a lot of hard work and overtime on my part. Shortly after getting it the hammer started to follow the slide forward and sometimes it would go full auto. If it came with a selector to make that happen, well then I would have been pretty stoked, but since it happened randomly it was disconcerting to say the least. I contacted LB and they treated me like a jerk. They implied that I was not qualified to operate the gun correctly. I had to pay to send it to them to get it fixed. When it returned I sold it and was done with them.

I have since gone to the SA TRP, probably not what the OP is looking for, and have never had another problem. I am out of the high-end 1911 game, but my friends still like them. I have recently shot their Nighthawks and a very nice Wilson Combat. They were all flawless and a much better product than my ill-fated Premier II.

I guess that I am I still a bit put off by that experience, but my wife tells me that my strongest quality is harboring a grudge.

Let us know what you end up with.

IME SA’s are both the best of gun’s and the worst of guns. Problem is you don’t know ahead of time what you are going to get. My current favorite 1911 .45 is a TRP Operator with some work by Teddy Jacobson Actions by T but SA has also been the source of some of my worst 1911 experiences.

Back in the day Baer was the only “intermediate” option between Colt/SA and Wilson / ed brown. Now that LB has priced themselves out of that market and Dan Wesson has stepped in to fill the void I can’t see a reason to buy a new one, which is what I don’t own 9mm PII.

For $2500iah I would rather have an alchemy or a used Wilson, SA PRO etc.

[gato naranja]

"this isn't that kind of pistol, this is my old man gun"

In my experience, 1911s tended to be guns that older men cared about.

When my dad passed away a few years ago, that made me the "old man" in more than just age. Not saying there was or wasn't a causal relationship, but a couple weeks after his funeral, I impulse bought something I never thought I would actually spend money on: a new 1911. I didn't spend a lot - (it was a smokin' deal on a SA Range Officer Operator), and I fudged a bit on caliber (9mm) - but in the time since, I have referred to it often as my "old guy gun."

I guess there really is such a thing.

[TOTS]

A friend of mine sells high end 1911's.
Alchemy

Attachment 48851

Man, I love you guy’s style! This reminds me of my “Poor man’s” Prime: DW Valor in polished blue. Wearing G-10 for “go” but I have a set of walnut shoes for “show”.

[LockedBreech]

I appreciate a quality 1911 (or, for that matter, any quality gun...). In my opinion, the semi-custom 1911 world has spun out of control, especially pricing-wise in relation to discernible value (at least to me). I'm basically seeing a $1K+ rise in price over a 10 year period for the same gun-and often the current ones are decontented.

I'm not against profit, or how anyone else spends their discretionary income. But you better be buying these things for the enjoyment and appreciation of them, because I darned don't see much viable appreciable investment potential out of them. As others have mentioned (and I have personally empirically experienced) in this thread and elsewhere, the semi-custom 1911 resale market is pretty soft. That's a heck of a clue. The rise of 1911 semi-bespoke pricing is a great example of style (and especially marketing) over substance, in my opinion. Adding fuel to the fire are some very credible 1911 users who have attached their name to some of the blinged out/inessential feature-laden pricy semi-bespoke offerings, apparently forgetting that it's more the Indian than the arrow-and arguably the simpler and less bejeweled the arrow, the better the value, if not the overall performance (or perhaps there's a realization that there's simply less personal and/or corporate profit in remaining true to previously espoused and executed values). (And I need to say that a clear exception to this is what Jason Burton did for Todd Green-in that gun, every feature was in fact properly weighed against empirical experience and had a quantifiable justified value).

Then there's the arrogance and apparent outright incompetence of some of the manufacturers. For that matter there's the issue as to what exactly is a manufacturer...I've long suspected that there are very few actual manufacturers, and many cottage industry parts assemblers and tuners (albeit with superb marketing assistance and positioning). And there should be a special place in perdition for manufacturers who are either fundamentally unable to adequately support their efforts that require justified reasonable after-sale adjustments/repairs/replacement-ostensibly part of what the semi-bespoke experience offers is a higher quality firearm, with higher quality components and assembly attention, and a higher quality performance and experience. If that can't be provided, then there are probably numerous third-world countries where they'd be welcomed with open arms and preferential treatment-and they can make whatever they want, albeit at a market-sensitive price accordingly that attaches to such a market...

Okay, rant off. My thoughts on the state of the 1911 are this: For a new gun, Dan Wesson and Alchemy seem to offer a decent value at a relatively decent price (at least relative to the other semi-custom manufacturers). For entry-level 1911s, Colt, Ruger and Springfield Arms-but I'm frankly unsure exactly what constitutes a Colt 1911 these days-I get the impression that they're also more of a parts assembler-but I'd love to be proven wrong on that.

For pretty much anything else, caveat emptor. Take a hard, hard look why you're going down the 1911 path. If it's because of the merits of the single action and/or historic atmosphere that you appreciate, great.

If you want a hard use, accurate, reliable, low maintenance pistol for duty (and most other venues), I think you need to be able to quantify the merits of spending literally thousands more than say, a HK, Glock, Beretta et al. And if you can't objectively do so, but still want a 1911 "just because," that's perfectly fine too. I'd suggest, however, that you be be realistic in your outlook and perspective-and expectations.

With all that said, there is truly can be something special about a 1911-platform pistol that's well designed, well executed, and well supported after you take possession. I appreciate mine-but I'm far more likely to be carrying, and depending on something else...

Best, Jon

This is a great post. I work with 4-5 different LE agencies on a regular basis and there are two types of 1911-carriers

1.) Older, seasoned cops with plainclothes and/or SWAT/SORT experience who know and maintain their weapon extremely well, like an older investigator here who carries a custom 1911 and goes to professional pistol and rifle training classes out of his own pocket twice a year and has been in 2-3 OISs over his career. I would NOT want to get in a gunfight against that guy.

2.) Cops that carry 1911s because they look badass, including a pair who carry Kimbers as duty arms (yikes). Who would undoubtedly be profoundly better served by a G17/19.

I think honesty about your level of proficiency and intended use is incredibly important. It's why I switched to striker systems across the board for all serious work/home defense and carry/travel roles. I love my 92s and Colt 1911 at the range, but I don't have the time to stay proficient in multiple systems. By every "serious" gun being a Glock or M2.0, I am ready for the same type of trigger press, break, and reset across the board. Is it less "cool" - absolutely. I'd love to carry my stainless Colt on my hip. Would be badass. But carrying a gun isn't about looking or feeling badass, it's choosing the best tool for a very serious job. That's a tough realization to make and a lot of carriers - LE and non-LE alike - aren't ready for it.

[theJanitor]

You guys make alot of great points about the realities of pistol selection. But the OP wasn't asking about different kinds of pistols, he was asking about options for a 1911. I'll just assume he's thought about why he wants (another?) one, and offer my opinion in that context.