Page 4 of 17 FirstFirst ... 2345614 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 165

Thread: USPSA Division Equipment Rules (Guns)

  1. #31
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Western Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by deflave View Post
    And while your local club may not be able to take advantage of said Divisions, other locations may.
    I'm not advocating that revo be eliminated. If one person in the country wants to shoot it, have at it. That doesn't change the fact that as a viable way to compete, both it and L10 are dead.

    Now L10 needs to be done away with. The people who live in ban states or in countries where mag capacity is restricted don't have (and don't need) Open 10 or Production/Carry Optics 10 to have a game. There's already ways to address compliance.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by BigD View Post
    To the OP:

    The "Why doesn't USPSA have a division just for the particular way I like to set up my pistol and holster? Wah!" comes up all the time.

    Feel like you should be able to load your mags to 13 rounds? Want to use a AIWB holster? Want to bolt a honking big light on the front and reduce muzzle rise? You can do all of that...in Open. (And some stuff in Limited.)

    Just shoot Open. You can compare your score to those of the Production shooters. You weren't going to win anyway, and even if you did win Production at a Level 1 club match, the prize is a steaming hot cup of jack squat.

    I seem to recall Steel Challenge used to allow lights.

    We can argue they arent perfect, but USPSA is trying to keep Production from being an equipment race. Hence why they don't allow lights
    Man, you guys get testy with differing opinions. Already said Iíll probably just shoot open, but the attitudes of some of the people posting here really suck. Some of you guys come across like assholes.

  3. #33
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Rochester Hills, MI
    Quote Originally Posted by Hot Cereal View Post
    Man, you guys get testy with differing opinions. Already said Iíll probably just shoot open, but the attitudes of some of the people posting here really suck. Some of you guys come across like assholes.
    Iím sure they donít mean to be, but it is a thing that USPSA shooters do hear A LOT, so it gets annoying. And it almost always comes from someone who is new to the sport. The fact that we have like 70 divisions is somewhat of a sore spot for a lot of shooters as thereís some goofyness that happens with trying to make everyone fairly happy.

    I get why almost all of the divisions that are in USPSA are there. The only exception in my mind is why PCC hasnít just been spun off into itís own thing. I get the allure and how it can be valuable, but it completely muddys the waters in the overall scores.

  4. #34
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Jhb South Africa
    Quote Originally Posted by Hot Cereal View Post
    Man, you guys get testy with differing opinions. Already said Iíll probably just shoot open, but the attitudes of some of the people posting here really suck. Some of you guys come across like assholes.

    I mean I am an arsehole, but that's really neither here nor there on the discussion at hand.

    Guys who shoot the game hear all the time about how their should be a special division for some dudes specific set up combined with how he doesn't care about results etc. Which he patently does or he would be quietly shooting Open with his dot sighted Shield and not commenting on the need for a new division. It frustrates guys.

    Go shoot a match with whatever you have, the guys will almost definitely find a plan for you. You may find less desire to change things once you get into it.
    Welcome to Africa, bring a hardhat.

  5. #35
    Site Supporter jetfire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Sioux Falls
    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    USPSA needs fewer divisions, not more. We already have divisions that only 2 or 3 people shoot (Lim 10, Revo). USPSA is really not about any specific gun. What makes it special is hit factor scoring. Buying a gun that's suited to USPSA is usually among the cheapest parts of the sport.

    I just shot a match today, and saw a number of guys (including active LEO) struggling to compete effectively with a Glock 19 and other tactical or CCW oriented guns. Can they do it? Sure, but they would learn a lot more with the right equipment.

    Edit: this came out more grumpy than I intended. USPSA is fun, especially when played well. The right equipment helps.
    You leave revolver out of this!
    I shot the PX4 before it was cool.

  6. #36
    King of Craft Clusterfrack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Redneck wonderland
    Quote Originally Posted by Hot Cereal View Post
    Man, you guys get testy with differing opinions. Already said Iíll probably just shoot open, but the attitudes of some of the people posting here really suck. Some of you guys come across like assholes.
    I think this was a lively discussion, but not over the fault line into asshole territory.

    USPSA has undergone a recent series of rule changes and division expansions. As well, we've had some confusion within our governance about whether USPSA is a hobby, an event, or a sport. I am sure you can appreciate how those of us who are committed to competing in USPSA as a sport have some strong feelings about this. When questions like yours come up, it's hard not to think "oh fuck, not this again." Imagine if you were a new soccer player, and wanted to change the rules so you could play your way.

    Anyway, I'm happy to continue the discussion, and will try not to come off like an asshole--although my not-an-asshole classification is D.
    "BJJ is sort of like nonconsensual yoga"
    "You donít really graduate from certain problems or certain thingsÖ like you always have to work on trigger control and pulling the trigger straight. " --Ben Stoeger 1/24/2018

  7. #37
    King of Craft Clusterfrack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Redneck wonderland
    Quote Originally Posted by deflave View Post
    Kinda silly to imply that only two or three people are shooting Lim10 or revolver.

    Also kinda silly to imply Divisions don't make sense.
    I didn't imply either of these things--I stated a fact and my opinion based on the fact. I think it's silly to have divisions where there is little or no competition. I have a lot of respect for Revo shooters--but they can really slow down a match. Here are the numbers from some recent matches:

    483 shooters:
    Division GM M A B C D U
    Limited 7 15 16 39 32 8 4
    Limited 10 0 0 0 3 3 1 0
    Open 7 20 28 26 19 4 4
    Production 4 12 8 19 19 3 6
    Revolver 0 1 0 1 2 0 1
    Single Stack 1 3 8 11 6 1 0
    Carry Optics 3 9 15 26 20 1 13
    PCC 7 14 7 8 5 2 11

    95 shooters:
    Division GM M A B C D U
    Limited 0 3 3 7 5 1 9
    Open 0 2 3 7 2 1 2
    Production 0 1 1 2 3 0 1
    Limited 10 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    Revolver 1 0 0 1 2 0 0
    Single Stack 0 0 0 0 1 0 0
    Carry Optics 1 2 2 4 5 2 6
    PCC 1 2 2 3 2 0 5


    81 shooters:
    Division / Class
    Division GM M A B C D U
    Limited 0 1 2 7 6 0 6
    Open 0 2 4 6 2 1 1
    Production 0 1 1 2 2 1 4
    Limited 10 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    Revolver 0 0 0 1 3 0 0
    Single Stack 0 1 0 0 2 0 0
    Carry Optics 1 2 2 3 3 1 4
    PCC 1 1 2 1 2 0 2
    "BJJ is sort of like nonconsensual yoga"
    "You donít really graduate from certain problems or certain thingsÖ like you always have to work on trigger control and pulling the trigger straight. " --Ben Stoeger 1/24/2018

  8. #38
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Western Ohio
    I don't know how revolver shooters can "really slow down a match" when there's at most 2 or 3 of them spread throughout 4 - 8 squads in an entire match and their runs take maybe 5 - 10 more seconds longer than the average production shooter.

    I guess if they stood around and didn't help paste and reset that may be a thing......

  9. #39
    King of Craft Clusterfrack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Redneck wonderland
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha Sierra View Post
    I don't know how revolver shooters can "really slow down a match" when there's at most 2 or 3 and their runs take maybe 5 - 10 more seconds than the average production shooter.

    I guess if they stood around and didn't help paste and reset that may be a thing......
    The good ones don't. Our GM Revo shooter is squared away. It's the other ones that take 2-3x the time to shoot, tie up the bay for several more minutes hunting for their moon clips, and don't paste because it takes them a half an hour to reload their clips. Get stuck on a squad with 2 or 3 of these dudes and dudettes, and it starts to feel like they need their own match. But you're right, it's not that big a deal.

    e.g. Looking at some recent scores, one Revolver guy took 501.29s to shoot a match that took me 140s in Production.
    Last edited by Clusterfrack; 02-17-2020 at 12:01 PM.
    "BJJ is sort of like nonconsensual yoga"
    "You donít really graduate from certain problems or certain thingsÖ like you always have to work on trigger control and pulling the trigger straight. " --Ben Stoeger 1/24/2018

  10. #40
    Site Supporter deflave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    305
    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    The good ones don't. Our GM Revo shooter is squared away. It's the other ones that take 2-3x the time to shoot, tie up the bay for several more minutes hunting for their moon clips, and don't paste because it takes them a half an hour to reload their clips. Get stuck on a squad with 2 or 3 of these dudes and dudettes, and it starts to feel like they need their own match. But you're right, it's not that big a deal.

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •