Jim Higginbotham on Shooting Center Mass...

[BehindBlueI's]

Hits in the arms and legs take away an enemy combatant's ability to move which effectively takes him out of the fight.

Unless the bone is broken, that's not a given.

I get there's some arguments to be made about injuring enemy troops vs killing them in order to tie up logistics, damage morale, etc. AP mines aren't always designed to be lethal for that reason, or at least that's how it was explained to me when I was getting my Fisher-Price My First Land Mine kit to train with. I'm not 100% sure that sort of thing is relevant to what's under discussion here.

[Mark D]

Kyle Defoor is not a fan of using the entire A zone. In the class I attended, he cut the A zone in half, and had us direct our rounds to the upper portion. He also drew anatomy on a USPSA target so we understood the reasons why.

[BigD]

Perhaps at the edge of my lane. While I have trained with people who have trained with JH and we have shared instructors ( Gunsite, TR, Tom Givens, Pat Rogers, John Hearne etc.), I have never trained with JH.


I have seen dozens of JH musings on a closed email group. Multiple people who I have trained with say he can still shoot and does not ask his students to do anything that he cannot do himself re shooting standards etc. He has an answer for everything he says. You may not like it, or agree with it, but it is clear he has thought about what he is saying.

This clip appears to demo a 5 shot drill, at 5 yrds or less given the big step off line in 3 seconds with 5 shots in a 5 inch group or less, definitely in the UPPER chest. (top of rib to bottom of sternumb, nipple to nipple-jugular notch to xiphoid)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXk2WmBGY_M


I am told that he is an accomplished life long ( as in since he could hold a gun and walk) hunter in that he has shot thousands of animals in the 1 to 300 lb range at least. In my mind, he tends to extrapolate data from that POV. i.e. if 5.56 is not deemed worthy to dispatch a 150 lb dear in many locales, it is suspect to do the same with a motivated 150 lb human relative to other rounds.

I believe that many of his data points that he still relies on are older and as such, under represent new "datasets" re latest gen 9mm rounds particularly and .40 cal/.45 ACP to a lesser extent.

My take away from JH is--- aim small/miss small as fast as you must with as big a projectile as you can handle (i.e. .45 ACP). And MOVE when possible (Motionless Operators Ventilate Easily)

As I have said in other postings, If you are a dyed in the wool circa 1984 weaver shooter, non leo/mil/gov, and you are dry firing 5 mins a day 3 x a week and live firing with a plan 2x a month, you are highly likely to be just fine with your hyper weaver, bladed, elbow bent down, push/pull, thumb over thumb self. If you wear body armor on a daily basis, I would assert you should square up more than "classic" weaver has been said to dictate to get to armor out front but otherwise rock on with your weaver self.

Worth watching just for the second 1911 worn in a cross draw holster.

[DocGKR]

The following quote is from Pat Rogers regarding an experience he had while fighting in Viet Nam as a Marine:

"On 21may66, i had the occasion to bump into a large number of NVA at very close range---3-15 yards. I shot one mortarman 6 times with my M14 at less then 10', all rounds in the chest. He emptied a magazine from his K50 at me without effect, and i shot him twice. He went down and i shot another guy, 2X in the chest and he went right down. The mortarman retrieved his K50 and started to get up, and i shot him 2x more to the chest. he went down and i shot another guy in the brain housing group- immediately effective. And the mortarman got up again. I fired two more into his chest, he went down again. I shot another guy in the side and he went down, and my first contact got up again- slowly, but probably very upset. I threw a frag on him and that ended the life of a very tough and motivated soldier."

[beenalongtime]

Wiki has an image that makes it quite clear where the important stuff is:

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki...ump-to-license



( different sizes of image can be found at link )

Plus, who knew that one kidney is positioned lower than the other?

— Michael

Since this has a creative commons licensing release, could this be done multipage and put in this thread, please:
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....ntable-Targets

[45dotACP]

Perhaps at the edge of my lane. While I have trained with people who have trained with JH and we have shared instructors ( Gunsite, TR, Tom Givens, Pat Rogers, John Hearne etc.), I have never trained with JH.


I have seen dozens of JH musings on a closed email group. Multiple people who I have trained with say he can still shoot and does not ask his students to do anything that he cannot do himself re shooting standards etc. He has an answer for everything he says. You may not like it, or agree with it, but it is clear he has thought about what he is saying.

This clip appears to demo a 5 shot drill, at 5 yrds or less given the big step off line in 3 seconds with 5 shots in a 5 inch group or less, definitely in the UPPER chest. (top of rib to bottom of sternumb, nipple to nipple-jugular notch to xiphoid)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXk2WmBGY_M


I am told that he is an accomplished life long ( as in since he could hold a gun and walk) hunter in that he has shot thousands of animals in the 1 to 300 lb range at least. In my mind, he tends to extrapolate data from that POV. i.e. if 5.56 is not deemed worthy to dispatch a 150 lb dear in many locales, it is suspect to do the same with a motivated 150 lb human relative to other rounds.

I believe that many of his data points that he still relies on are older and as such, under represent new "datasets" re latest gen 9mm rounds particularly and .40 cal/.45 ACP to a lesser extent.

My take away from JH is--- aim small/miss small as fast as you must with as big a projectile as you can handle (i.e. .45 ACP). And MOVE when possible (Motionless Operators Ventilate Easily)

As I have said in other postings, If you are a dyed in the wool circa 1984 weaver shooter, non leo/mil/gov, and you are dry firing 5 mins a day 3 x a week and live firing with a plan 2x a month, you are highly likely to be just fine with your hyper weaver, bladed, elbow bent down, push/pull, thumb over thumb self. If you wear body armor on a daily basis, I would assert you should square up more than "classic" weaver has been said to dictate to get to armor out front but otherwise rock on with your weaver self.

Dudes legitimately fast to be sure. And from a Weaver stance no less.

But the second 1911 worn cross draw...not sure whether it makes me laugh or gives me the Forest Whitaker eye. He's practically wearing a bath robe to conceal that whole getup.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[Dagga Boy]

“As many here know, Pat Rogers shot a subject 14 times with a .223 (Knowing Pat, I figure most of those were within the Gunsite 8" circle). Some here also know that Pat was charged with murder for that (but the prosecutor died before an indictment was handed down and the replacement prosecutor declined to pursue it). “

Can you quote a source for this. It is news to both Steve Fisher and I who talked to Pat on a far more regular basis than most.

[Erick Gelhaus]

The Forest Whittiker eye is kicking in this AM.

Was on the email list VCD described with Mr. Higganbotham for several years, and I enjoyed a couple of brief conversations with him at a TacCon or two. I wish I had the opportunity to take a class from him.

His students - decent, normal humans; L/E; and Mil - have given him significant data to pull from. I would not discount what he has to say just because he isn't a household name.

What many believe, or claim, is the Weaver is not. It has been hashed out here before, but I still read, see the same flawed depictions. If one can end up in an identified stance, about the only difference between them is whether or not the support elbow is bent. That said, I'm not arguing with anyone over the position of their support elbow - unless it bent 90 deg and parallel to the ground, pushing or pulling the pistol off target.

[Tokarev]

“As many here know, Pat Rogers shot a subject 14 times with a .223 (Knowing Pat, I figure most of those were within the Gunsite 8" circle). Some here also know that Pat was charged with murder for that (but the prosecutor died before an indictment was handed down and the replacement prosecutor declined to pursue it). “

Can you quote a source for this. It is news to both Steve Fisher and I who talked to Pat on a far more regular basis than most.

Unfortunately I cannot. The stuff was forwarded to me from a friend.

Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

[John Hearne]

“As many here know, Pat Rogers shot a subject 14 times with a .223 (Knowing Pat, I figure most of those were within the Gunsite 8" circle). Some here also know that Pat was charged with murder for that (but the prosecutor died before an indictment was handed down and the replacement prosecutor declined to pursue it). “

Can you quote a source for this. It is news to both Steve Fisher and I who talked to Pat on a far more regular basis than most.

I only took one class from Pat but I recall hearing the gist of that story. I thought he had shot the gun 11 times but the DA tried to prosecute him for it. The DA died (90% sure) or was forced from office.