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Thread: Jim Higginbotham on Shooting Center Mass...

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Tokarev View Post

    As many here know, Pat Rogers shot a subject 14 times with a .223 (Knowing Pat, I figure most of those were within the Gunsite 8" circle). Some here also know that Pat was charged with murder for that (but the prosecutor died before an indictment was handed down and the replacement prosecutor declined to pursue.
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    What is the story with this? I've never heard about this.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Williams View Post
    What is the story with this? I've never heard about this.
    Yeah, that’s a new one on me too.

    Was that with NYPD or “other?”

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    So to work on this....

    What “Anatomically correct” commercial targets do folks recommend?

    Or

    If one was to modify a standard USPSA target for “anatomically correct” practice, what should be the dimensions and position(s) of the “A“ zone?
    I stick an A4 page with the bits of a B8 that will fit on it , on an IDPA target. Gives me a heart sized target ( the black) in the right sort of place. I treat anything off the page, except of course things like deliberate head shots, as misses.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigT View Post
    I stick an A4 page with the bits of a B8 that will fit on it , on an IDPA target. Gives me a heart sized target ( the black) in the right sort of place. I treat anything off the page, except of course things like deliberate head shots, as misses.
    A4 is roughly 8x11” for those of us who keep the metric system down.

    Last edited by HCM; 02-16-2020 at 11:41 PM.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    A4 is roughly 8x11” for those of us who keep the metric system down.


    My Bad , sorry


    Its a piece of paper approximately fourteen Opossum spleens in size.
    Welcome to Africa, bring a hardhat.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Navin Johnson View Post
    I believe that Jim Higginbotham was/is a disciple of Evan Marshall's garbage with a few of his own twists. A big proponent of .357 "stopping power" He had formulas on how many rounds it would take to stop an antagonist with the various service caliber pistols.

    He did preach shot placement more than Marshall....but it would be mixed in with his "science" that it takes 3 9mm HP's to equal one .45acp. Before one hangs on his prophecy diligent research into his past positions would be prudent.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha Sierra View Post
    His statement of where bullet placement does the most damage should stand on its own merits regardless of what other topics he might be right or wrong about.
    His shot placement argument should stand on its own merits, regardless of whatever quackery he might prescribe.

    But to be honest, he hasn't proven anything in that article.

    He appealed to his authority (trained a bunch of Soldiers in some undefined capacity) and cherry picked a bunch of anecdotes, some of which he didn't even connect to his hypothesis.I

    A person died after taking 14 .223 rounds in unknown parts of the body from Pat Rodgers? Ok. Where those all lower Alphas? We don't know.

    Guy initially survives 14 rounds of .40, 7 of which would have been lower A. Where did the other 7 hit? We're they upper A zone? We don't know.

    Guy takes 17 .223 rounds and 5 .40 rounds, most to the A zone or -0 before going down. No mention of how many were upper zone and how many were lower zone. (I'd like to see the tape on this one and see just how many rounds he took and while he still managed to stay in the fight.)

    The last two anecdotes are the same - just guys that took a bunch of rounds but he doesn't prove they took a lot of rounds to the lower A zone. Just that they took rounds.

    Having said all that, he's probably not wrong.

  7. #27
    I attended a Buck Doyle (Follow Through Consulting) Recce Carbine class a couple years ago. Buck talked a little about shot placement.

    To summarize he basically said that shooting people in the body doesn't work. You need to shoot them in the joints to take away the ability to fight. Also shoot them in the dick and follow up with a head shot when they reflexively bend over to protect their junk.

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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokarev View Post
    I attended a Buck Doyle (Follow Through Consulting) Recce Carbine class a couple years ago. Buck talked a little about shot placement.

    To summarize he basically said that shooting people in the body doesn't work. You need to shoot them in the joints to take away the ability to fight. Also shoot them in the dick and follow up with a head shot when they reflexively bend over to protect their junk.

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    You should ask for your money back.
    If he hears his name, he will literally come over here and rip our faces off.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Hambo View Post
    You should ask for your money back.
    I'm sure he has a different frame of reference than most of us.

    Hits in the arms and legs take away an enemy combatant's ability to move which effectively takes him out of the fight.

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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokarev View Post
    Hits in the arms and legs take away an enemy combatant's ability to move which effectively takes him out of the fight.
    Hits to the legs might take away mobility, but don't automatically take them out of the fight. If you can accurately disable an arm, you could completely disable them with a head shot. I suspect that his different frame of reference is just to be different, and hence increase class attendance.
    If he hears his name, he will literally come over here and rip our faces off.

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