Even before I was in the Military, my family went by the "show up early, when the food is done we are eating" rule. My wife's family? Aunt and uncle show up so late they left the house an hour after they were supposed to be there, and it was a two hour drive. No shit, three hours late?Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's
Thankfully after being around the USAF for over 21 years my wife operates on Military time.
My sister-in-law was so bad my mother-in-law started lying to her about what time meals were so she'd at least be close.
My wife is as punctual as I am. Sure makes life nice. I'm that guy that can take a 200 mile road trip and end up within 1 minute of my time goal.
I believe there are three steps to basic success at any job. In the order of importance:
(1) Show up. Be there every fucking day, on time, and not just when you feel like it.
(2) Do your job. In the broadest sense. When you finish your assignments, find something else to do, whether it's preparing for tomorrow or cleaning, or helping a co-worker who has legitimately fallen behind despite their best efforts.
(3) Shut up. Don't complain. Don't gossip. And especially don't complain about stuff that management cannot change. If it's a busy, hard day, get to work, because sitting around whining isn't going to make it better.
It's not nice to call them tardy, they have special needs.
I don't get this, and the old "military guys" around here (serving 2 fucking years opening cans of beans 30 years ago and riding that pony cuz nothing else you ever did was any more interesting) seem to run on that bullshit for everything. I do get "be ready to operate at XX:XX". My morning commute is exactly 21 minutes long. That means from the time I step out the door, until the time I'm in the office. It includes three minutes spent parking and walking in. In the past 14 months, I have been late twice. The first time, I hauled ass preparing and actually began working right on time. The latter, I was sick overnight and would have been a safety risk if I hadn't overslept. I called in late when I did wake up, and much fun was had at my expense, replaying the tape of my jibbering and disjointed call. Which I did somewhat enjoy myself, as it meant that the whole affair was so completely out-of-character that even the Director had to laugh at it. I wasn't even docked the time or admonished.
The worst offenders, in my experience, aren't the millennials or younger workers, but the "retired second career" set. Every afternoon, me and at least one other chap are stuck waiting for one of them. Start times are typically calculated with a 15-minute "prep" period, but the particular shift she bid on has 15 minutes less, to avoid paying overtime. No big deal, as it really only takes 7 minutes to perform the required tasks even if you're slow and dumb, but she'll sit there for the full 15. Even though, every day, she's physically there forty-five minutes early. We're actually happy when she's absent--which is often--even though it means we'll be working with an FNG. But at least they'll be on time.
There is something very true about this being wired.
Ever since I can remember, growing up in Germany, time has been extremely important to me. It's very important to me to "know" what time it is. We use Meinberg GPS time servers on our equipment at work; I walk by and check my watch against Zulu/UTC if no one is looking.
I can also literally tell myself before going to bed: "ok, Rich, you have to be up at 4am/5am/6am to catch that flight/get to work/prep for the match". I typically set at least two alarms. But almost every single time, I find myself up about five minutes before they go off, resetting them. I can go to take a nap for 30", and I will wake up maybe 28" minutes later. With no alarm.
Business appointments are kept with a "five minutes early, is on time" philosophy. Can't get there? Call or email and follow up. Airline flights? I love sitting in the lounge relaxing before boarding. I blame all this on my dad. He used to say "plan for at least one flat tire on the way to the airport."
So yeah you could say I'm "wired" for time.
Now my lovely spouse, on the other hand...is not.
I worked with a guy who was constantly late to relieve me, and it got to the point I had to tell him, "Look, you need to start showing up on time, you're keeping me here past when I should be, and it's getting old!" Sometimes he wouldn't show up until 1am, over an hour late. Most nights it was at least 1230am.
He swore he would start coming in on time, and he did, for a week. Then it was back to his usual nonsense. He only lived about a mile from work, so he could get there in a few minutes, but it was almost impossible. Even our boss was unable to get him to come in on time, and he was the scariest person I've ever met. 4 nights a week, I didn't really care, it was OT and that was nice, but on that last 4pm-12am shift, I had to come back in 8 hours and work days, and it killed me, even at 26. Finally, I got fed up one morning when I came in at 8am, and told the owner of the place that he needed to talk to him and get him to stop the insanity. He was taken into the office and told it had to stop, or he was gone. He literally fell down on his knees crying, begging not to be fired. The best thing that could have happened to the boss would have been to can him, but he managed to stay on until after I left, and ended up costing the company about $20K in a sexual harassment suit from a female employee. Then he finally was let go. He somehow ended up getting a job some other place, and they didn't tolerate his tardy nonsense, and he was gone in about a month. Last I heard, he was working as a porter at a Vegas hotel and lived there, so he couldn't be late!
I admit, when I worked days, and I don't know how people do it, I was constantly almost late, as I would get up as late as was possible to get there on time. 3 months of it the last time I worked days about killed me, I was so sleep deprived at the end of it, I was dreaming while awake. Scary and kind of cool at the same time. No more for me, ever, just second or 3rds.
My wife and I are both wired for twenty minutes early. We have tried to arrive on time, but it never works. We say we won't be early, try to wait to leave the house, but can't stand it and leave early. We are genetically incapable of anything less than twenty minutes early.
"Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA
Beware of my temper, and the dog that I've found...
Keeping commitments, and general respect for your coworkers isn’t really a thing anymore (if it ever really was, I’m only 45 so I can’t really comment on the bad/good old days).
One thing I’ve started calling people out on is the “I can’t make the thing I previously agreed to attend”. My response is now “no, you are choosing to do the other thing, not being made to do the other thing”. While it makes people extremely uncomfortable, I find that over the long haul it tends to have an impact as they would rather honor their original commitment than have to have that conversation again.
Re: tardiness, in SE FL we are plagued by what I call “mañana time”. From the view of this N Florida native redneck, the Latin and Island cultures view the clock differently than I do. And it’s Not so much a “race” thing since the white folks that are native to this part of the state are typically just as bad if not worse.
I will say that I’ve come to care less about overall work hours. You want to come in at 8:30? I don’t care, so long as your first meeting isn’t until 9 and you’re otherwise meeting your other obligations. I focus far more on results with my staff, and if they aren’t getting the results then we start to focus on the details. When they go to a meeting at a jobsite, I expect them to be on time, and I check in with the jobsite staff to see how my folks are doing.
All of that said, I disconnect GoToMeetings and get up and walk out of rooms of the primary meeting attendee(s) aren’t there after 10 minutes. I’ve passed company presidents in the hall and they say “hey, aren’t we meeting? I was on my way.” To which I replied “we’ll reschedule for a time that’s less hectic for you” and keep right on walking.
ETA:
This kind of thing is also absolutely an issue of company culture that starts at the top. I’ve worked at companies where the president of the company is most often already sitting in the room waiting when you get to a meeting, and I’ve worked at companies where sometimes he just doesn’t even show up. In every one, how he behaves matches the way everyone else behaves. Whether that’s because he has simply hired 200 copies of himself, or because people learn what matters and what doesn’t, the end result is the same. President is disrespectful of his employees and lat eat, or cancels, or leaves early from, meetings and so does everyone else.
I am in the same boat with a Persian/Sicilian woman. Early on in the relationship, I started giving 45 minute warnings, then 30, then 15, 10, 5, when we had to leave together (with a built in buffer of 15-30 minutes she didn't know about). That, and making sure all the other stuff was taken care of (beasties fed, garbage taken out, etc.) has helped tremendously. Only 7 years later, and usually a 15 minute warning, with some occasional hovering around the 3 minute mark, does the trick almost always. Her family is another story...
To the original post, I've seen that a lot from newer hires in my decidedly low speed civilian job, especially in the American under 30 set. I emphasize when they are hired how important punctuality is, and start hammering them early on about it. It takes a while for it to sink in that 3 minutes late is still late, that your train that had a 10 minute delay is not a reason to be 10 minutes late, and so on. This is one of the aspects I hate most about managing people and teams, but it seems to me there are some people that are just very emotionally oriented and motivated, and if you want to effect a change in their behavior, you need to go that route, making them feel badly for holding up the team, dissapointing you, causing the business/project money and efficiency, and ultimately endangering their employment.
I've told many people at the beginning of relationships both personal and business that the Dalai Lama, the love of my life, and my three year old nephew get a 30 minute grace period for any scheduled meeting, and then asked them if they really thought they should rank more important than those people to me.
My mom is 78. When I was growing up I didn't realize they sung so many songs before the preacher started singing.
We were always late. I had a coach at our high school that you had to check in with if tardy. We spent a lot of time together after school in detention.
I'm now if I'm on time I'm late. We get everywhere early. It takes 15 minutes to get across my town and 30 to get to my kids school a county over. We get everywhere 15-30 mins early.
My brother in law and his family live 2 hours away. There have been times they have not left until time for us to eat. My mother in law insist on waiting on them. I hate it especially if I am cooking. It's terribly rude to make everyone eat cold food that someone has invested their time in because you can't manage time.
I see it if you are late you probably don't want to be there. It's rude.
Last edited by camsdaddy; 02-16-2020 at 08:18 AM.
I spent a few years in a country in N. Africa. I was told by a local that if you make it to an appointment anytime on the set day it was acceptable. If you made it a day late people may or may not have a problem with it so it was better to just be there the day you were supposed to be. That was 50 years ago so it looks like things may have changed.
In the P-F basket of deplorables.
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