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Thread: Reliable, lightweight lever action carbine in pistol calibers?

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by JRB View Post
    Gentlemen, I absolutely love this thread. Thank you for all for taking the time to share your experience and knowledge - a .44 Mag lever gun to match a 4in model 29 is pretty make a very serious bucket-list pair for me.

    I'm going to tag @Lost River here so he can (hopefully) come post a bunch of awesome pics and share some awesome experience with pistol cal lever guns, so this can officially become my favorite P-F thread.
    I too love this thread(and pretty much any other dedicated to lever rifles and revolvers),thank you gentlemen!I also hope Doc and Lost River join in.Any opinions on how the 1873 compares to the other rifles discussed?Apparently Rossi is introducing a model similar to the Marlin Dark/Henry X rifles.

  2. #52
    Site Supporter Malamute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RONK View Post
    ...Any opinions on how the 1873 compares to the other rifles discussed?

    Steve, of Steves Gunz, the lever gunsmith that does a lot of cowboy action gunsmithing has commented a number of times that he sees the 1892 actions pop straight wall cartridges straight up between the cartridge guides when run fast. I dont know if its primarily a Rossi issue or what. The 1892 action was designed to work with bottleneck cartridges, which the 44-40, 38-40 were. They can be fine with straight wall cartridges in well built guns I believe, but the potential exists. I (sample of one) have had no problems with my Browning 92 in 44 mag.

    Another gunsmith and cowboy action shooter told me his personal Uberti 73 in 45 Colt had not ever failed to cycle in around 50k rounds. The 73 action, despite its perceived weakness of action lockup in comparison to other types, feeds the shell straight into the chamber with the shell unable to become free of the carrier/lifter during use. Id love to have either a 20" or 16" carbine Miroku/Winchester 1873 in 357 mag. If I ever managed to wear it out, they can be fitted with oversize links to take up worn headspace. Id also be quite happy with a Browning 92 or Miroku/Winchester 92 carbine in 357 and not look back. Either would likely end up cut to 16 or 17 inches. Im planning to cut the Browning 92 44 to 17 inches when the time is right.
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  3. #53
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    I wanted a .357 Timberwolf back in the day, but had no funds. If someone began producing them again, it would likely jump to the top of my want list.



    https://www.taylorsfirearms.com/long...-threaded.html

    Oh, my! I can think of little else that I'd want in a .357/.44 levergun, with the possible exception of a shorter LOP...and it would be easy to lop of an inch or two.
    (Formerly known as Sotex.)

  4. #54
    Old man yelling at cloud OlongJohnson's Avatar
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  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by JRB View Post
    Gentlemen, I absolutely love this thread. Thank you for all for taking the time to share your experience and knowledge - a .44 Mag lever gun to match a 4in model 29 is pretty make a very serious bucket-list pair for me.

    I'm going to tag @Lost River here so he can (hopefully) come post a bunch of awesome pics and share some awesome experience with pistol cal lever guns, so this can officially become my favorite P-F thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malamute View Post
    Steve, of Steves Gunz, the lever gunsmith that does a lot of cowboy action gunsmithing has commented a number of times that he sees the 1892 actions pop straight wall cartridges straight up between the cartridge guides when run fast. I dont know if its primarily a Rossi issue or what. The 1892 action was designed to work with bottleneck cartridges, which the 44-40, 38-40 were. They can be fine with straight wall cartridges in well built guns I believe, but the potential exists. I (sample of one) have had no problems with my Browning 92 in 44 mag.

    Another gunsmith and cowboy action shooter told me his personal Uberti 73 in 45 Colt had not ever failed to cycle in around 50k rounds. The 73 action, despite its perceived weakness of action lockup in comparison to other types, feeds the shell straight into the chamber with the shell unable to become free of the carrier/lifter during use. Id love to have either a 20" or 16" carbine Miroku/Winchester 1873 in 357 mag. If I ever managed to wear it out, they can be fitted with oversize links to take up worn headspace. Id also be quite happy with a Browning 92 or Miroku/Winchester 92 carbine in 357 and not look back. Either would likely end up cut to 16 or 17 inches. Im planning to cut the Browning 92 44 to 17 inches when the time is right.
    Malamute,thank you sir.Would you consider one of the Italian 1873 clones,if not,would you please tell us why?Thank you again.

  6. #56
    Site Supporter Malamute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RONK View Post
    Malamute,thank you sir.Would you consider one of the Italian 1873 clones,if not,would you please tell us why?Thank you again.
    I would, but would prefer a Miroku gun if possible. Steve I believe, also mentioned seeing a number of Uberti guns come in that had the barrels loctited in, as they didnt index correctly, and rather than use a different barrel or fit one, they just loctitied them into index. Their screws have been soft in the past, it may have been improved recently. I believe fatdog has more experience or information in the use of the italian guns from cowboy action competition hes been involved with.

    Most of them are probably OK, but the fact that some arent, and ive heard of zero such problems with Miroku guns, pushes me in that direction, particularly since the cost is about identical, if not cheaper in the case of some models of Miroku 73 short rifles, if one can adapt to the deep crescent butt plate, which puts me off that type. They seem to work for other people. just not well for me.
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  7. #57
    I was perusing 1873s the other day, and found that the eye-talian clones are usually within $100 to $200 of the Winchester when it comes to new prices. The Winchesters hold their value much better on the used market it seems.

    The color case hardened Winchesters are disproportionately more expensive than the Italian jobs, but my understanding is that the Winchester case hardening is more authentic in some way.

    I've not delved too deeply into it. Currently, I'm not buying "nice" guns just to own. Pretty much anything I own is subject to being dragged through the pucker brush in the rain.

    Soon as we make that last house payment though, thats going to change.
    I was into 10mm Auto before it sold out and went mainstream.

  8. #58
    Site Supporter Malamute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lester Polfus View Post
    ... Currently, I'm not buying "nice" guns just to own. Pretty much anything I own is subject to being dragged through the pucker brush in the rain.
    .

    Agree. Ive heard some negative comments on what Ive done to various guns, like drilling and tapping Brownings for receiver sights and sling mounts, filing a high spot down on the grip frame of a stubborn model 29 Smith that no grips fit well, cutting Browning barrels,....

    I appreciate fine tools or guns, but if they dont do what I need, or I regard them as too fragile or precious to use, they have little practical use. I try to take care of stuff but am not the least bit afraid to use them and modify them as needed to make them more useful to me. Their value is enhanced if they work better for my needs or can be used anywhere. I accept the supposed financial loss from modifications or wear, but that only matters if I sell one.

    Im not certain, but I believe the case hardening on the Winchesters may be real (as in the same type as original Winchesters and Colts), and that on the italians either cyanide type or whatever, but not the same as originals or the Mirokus.
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  9. #59
    Malamute,thank you again sir.I also don't care for the crescent stock on the Winchesters,that coupled with the barrel having to be gut down to 16",at this time,I'm staying with Marlin.It's unfortunate that Winchester doesn't offer the variations that we'd be interested in.

  10. #60
    Site Supporter Malamute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RONK View Post
    Malamute,thank you again sir.I also don't care for the crescent stock on the Winchesters,that coupled with the barrel having to be gut down to 16",at this time,I'm staying with Marlin.It's unfortunate that Winchester doesn't offer the variations that we'd be interested in.

    We all have to choose what works for us. The Marlins are pretty decent guns.

    If one is handy with tools, or knows a fair gunsmith that doesnt charge extremely high amounts for very basic work, cutting them down isnt too dramatic. Ive cut one Winchester 94 down myself in the basement, the only thing i chose not to do myself was re-dovetail the front sight. A gunsmith I know said hed charge $40 to do that.

    The muzzle can be squared up with a lee case trimmer pilot turned down to fit the bore snugly. Use a sharpie to blacken the muzzle, turn the cutter to mark the high spots, file it, repeat until square, gently bevel the inside edge with a sharp counter sink and file the outside to a bevel, then cold blue or sharpie it black.

    I like the short rifle format for the most part, but the old time crescent style doesnt work well for me at all. Ive considered re-shaping the butt plate with heat and pushing the toe of the stock forward an inch or more to lower the shoulder cup of the butt plate, and reduce the long pokey toe. I had a Browning 86 rifle stock I had the crescent chopped off and a flat pad installed, but the crescent stocks had a thinner profile than other styles, so the end result isnt the same as an actual shotgun type butt or even an early carbine type. Its till a huge improvement in handling though and was well worthwhile. The 86 carbine stock are fine, the actual shotgun butts the best of all of them though. Taller comb, thicker profile, flat butt plate, its basically what most stocks evolved to over time. The 1886 extra-lightweight has them, they are great stocks.

    Some of the older commemorative Winchester 94s had crescent shaped butts, but the geometry was different, and shallower, and they actually feel pretty decent to me, not the feeling that the comb of the stock is being dropped out from under my cheek when the stock finds its resting point in quick use.
    Last edited by Malamute; 02-17-2020 at 02:37 PM.
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