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Thread: Super Fun Time Thread - You do your pursuits, I'll do mine

  1. #1
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    Super Fun Time Thread - You do your pursuits, I'll do mine

    Split from the holster angle thread for this sidebar - BehindBlueI's


    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    This.

    So yesterday I was in a vehicle pursuit. Short version, stolen car that visited a known dope house flees from a neighboring district right at the border, I was close and ended up as second car. ONce there were three of us the lead car used PIT and the suspect car ended up against a tree on the passenger side. "Tactical V" put the PIT car holding his driver's side door closed with his bumper and me at the front bumper to keep him from driving off. This resulted in a whole metric shit ton of movement by the driver. As we all know, a bunch of movement is bad. In this scenario I start my draw as soon as I undo my seat belt since my hand is right there anyway and by the time I'm out of the car to take some cover behind the engine I'm up and ready. I would assume the carry position under discussion would make that more difficult.

    I am not in the last concerned with a few tenths of a second on the draw vs getting hung up in my vehicle and every vehicle I get is narrower than the last.
    If you're pursuing and PITting over a rolling stolen and dope, you've got software problems, not hardware problems. It's not like the crook is going to get any serious time, repent his evil ways, stop stealing cars and clean up his life because of this arrest.
    Last edited by BehindBlueI's; 02-13-2020 at 10:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paherne View Post
    If you're pursuing and PITting over a rolling stolen and dope, you've got software problems, not hardware problems. It's not like the crook is going to get any serious time, repent his evil ways, stop stealing cars and clean up his life because of this arrest.
    And not everyone has the same attitude toward criminals as San Francisco (or California in general). We'll pursue and PIT over a shoplifting (within reason). Some agencies are still allowed, and encouraged, to catch bad guys, regardless of what happens to them afterward in the "Justice" system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paherne View Post
    If you're pursuing and PITting over a rolling stolen and dope, you've got software problems, not hardware problems. It's not like the crook is going to get any serious time, repent his evil ways, stop stealing cars and clean up his life because of this arrest.
    We still get to be the police here regardless of what the courts do, at least for now. Other than the obvious I was there, you weren't, and I was quite comfortable with the speeds, traffic, etc risk vs the gov't interest involved, it's a little sad to see that apprehending criminals is now a 'software problem'. Maybe you do your thing and we'll do ours.
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by paherne View Post
    If you're pursuing and PITting over a rolling stolen and dope, you've got software problems, not hardware problems your agency hasn’t been taken over by the fear of liability and you’re still allowed to be the police.
    FIFY

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    Quote Originally Posted by TC215 View Post
    FIFY
    Burn Centers in San Francisco Bay Area
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

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    Site Supporter Erick Gelhaus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    Not the level of mature, professional discussion I expected here.

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    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erick Gelhaus View Post
    Not the level of mature, professional discussion I expected here.
    Frankly, neither is calling another user's pursuit a "software problem" knowing jack-diddly-shit about it other than, perhaps, it's against policies half a continent away. Starting something like that gets you what it gets you, and it's been pretty mild.

    That said, I've split it off the holster angle thread.
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by paherne View Post
    Split from the holster angle thread for this sidebar - BehindBlueI's




    If you're pursuing and PITting over a rolling stolen and dope, you've got software problems, not hardware problems. It's not like the crook is going to get any serious time, repent his evil ways, stop stealing cars and clean up his life because of this arrest.
    Sounds like the perfect reason for a chase and a PIT. In my part of the world a stolen vehicle that just left the dope spot means there's a high probability that good turds are inside that vehicle. They're running for a reason.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

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    There are no accurate stats, but an article I read a few years ago estimated that 300-400 INNOCENT motorists were killed, per year, as a result of police pursuits. We have about 15-20 really bad, possibly criminal shoots per year as police in the 1000-1100 people that the police kill every year with firearms. Chasing for property crimes cannot be justified, in my opinion. The risk to the public and the officers involved is not warranted, given the state of the industry. With LPRs, DNA and other tools we now have available to us, it is not conscionable to chase for these crimes.

    Policing is dangerous and I signed up to do dangerous things. I did not sign up to do dumb things. Many of the problems we, the police, get in to are due to the "chase the rabbit" mode that my old corporal and SWAT partner coined. Foot pursuits are stupid, too. Setting a perimeter, calling in a fur missile and getting air assets leads to catching bad guys in a safer manner for us and the public.

    Blaming my disagreement on policy is incorrect. I am saying it's not the best way to do business. I've seen too many careers roasted, too many people, including officers, hurt to justify this. I am not saying this because I'm afraid of liability, although I understand that most admin types use fear of liability as a primary motivator. Every significant use of force or controversial arrest gets us sued where I work, so I don't worry about liability, I just worry about doing the right thing and let the chips fall where they may.

    Beating your chest about being the real police is great until you have to explain to a father why his wife and kids got t-boned, or call the wife of one of your guys to tell her a unit is on the way to pick her up and take her to the hospital because we chased a doper car thief. Imagine how that will weigh on one of your guys if he is the one that initiates such a pursuit?

    You can't explain this to normal, decent tax payers and make this make sense why little Johnny is dead because the police chased someone for a property crime and the bad guy ran him over.

    I'm fine if you want to make a stolen doper task force and have ram cars that do take downs with blocking, etc. I'm good with shooting reckless evaders to stop pursuits because the SCOTUS has said high-speed pursuits are violent crimes and affirmed use of force in Scott v. Harris, Plumhoff v. Rickard, and other cases.

    Please, make your argument to explain the value of chasing property crime suspects in vehicles.

  10. #10
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    A PIT above a certain speed requires deadly force justification with my agency. No pursuits authorized unless the suspect poses an immediate threat to officers/the public. I'm not going to say I agree or disagree with that policy...just posting as an example of where city policing is today. FWIW my agency is located in a county/state that most would consider as "red" as it gets.

    In regards to the incident that led to the creation of this thread...it sounds like it ended with a legit perp in custody and no one getting seriously hurt. Regardless of policy and personal feelings on the matter, I'm glad that was the result.
    Last edited by RJflyer; 02-13-2020 at 11:38 PM.

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