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Thread: Duty Holsters - positioning, angle, heights, retention

  1. #21
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Whitlock View Post
    I'm curious how a muzzle-forward holster worn at ~ 0200 will interface with seatbelts, steering wheels, and all the other accoutrements in ever shrinking patrol cars.
    I was going to say the same thing. With more and more stuff in the center there's less and less room for cop. I'm in a Charger and I think a low ride would dig into my seat bolster.
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  2. #22
    Site Supporter Rex G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNewbie View Post
    We need @Dagga Boy @Rex G to speak on their experiences.
    I wore my 6360 ALS/SLS holsters just a bit forward of 0300. One holster body was for a G34, and the other for a 1911*. Any farther forward would have made full articulation of my right leg problematic. A longer shank, for a lower ride height, would have resulted in my hanging from the holster, rather than wearing it. I wanted the holster to be as far forward as possible, to make it easier to defend, at contact distance.

    I did experiment, on the left side of the belt, with a QLS receptacle at about 1000. The holster body was affixed to the matching QLS fork component, which allowed the lefty holster body, for a G19, to be straight-vertical, and ride higher, to allow decent articulation of my left leg. I did not wear the holster in the QLS, but kept it ready, with a loaded G19 inserted, for a critical incident. I also rigged a double mag pouch, with an second QLS fork component, allowing me to opt for two extra G17 mags. Interestingly, the second holster was, technically, within policy, as nothing prohibited a second primary duty pistol to be visibly carried. Only “back-up” weapons were required to be concealed.

    I do not think there was enough clearance, on my right side, to rig my primary duty holster in the same way, especially after I had to switch from a Tahoe, to driving the Ford MBUV. (Make-Believe Utility Vehicle.) Seriously, having to patrol in those tiny Fords, during my final year on patrol, was one of the factors that drove me to retire.

    Angling the holster for the ideal neutral wrist position during the draw, might make drawing, while seated inside the vehicle, a bit complicated, if not problematic, especially inside those tiny Fords, inside which the computer terminal took up so much room.

    *In October 2015, I switched from my long-time P229R DAK duty pistol, to a G17, shortly after my chief authorized 9mm to be an alternate duty cartridge. The local police supply had no Safariland 6360 duty holsters for the G17, but there was stock for the G34. At the end of 2015, the chief retired, and delivered a parting gift of returning the 1911 to the list of approved duty pistols. In March 2016, I attended the class that allowed me to resume 1911 duty pistol carry. In 2017, when I had to start using the small Fords, I reverted to using Glocks while on patrol. While driving, I could wear a G17, but if riding shotgun, I wore a G19, as the butt of a larger pistol tended to catch on the seat bolster.
    Retar’d LE. Kinesthetic dufus.

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  3. #23
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    I started in 1981. I worked in a little town that had a wide open firearms policy, and I carried a Colt Combat Commander in condition one in a Bianchi forward rake duty holster.

    I gave up on it after a couple of years because the forward rake meant the butt of the gun was buried in the seat if I was sitting in the cop car, and it was difficult to draw the gun if you were seated (like in a high risk vehicle stop)

  4. #24
    Member TGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff22 View Post
    and it was difficult to draw the gun if you were seated (like in a high risk vehicle stop)
    I think this is very important to note.

    Policing is not always playing on the range in a standing, prepositioned stance, primed and waiting for a beep.

    Thus, for most of us, we shouldn't be planning our gear around as if it were while sacrificing other factors that are arguably more important to begin with.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

  5. #25
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    I think this is very important to note.

    Policing is not always playing on the range in a standing, prepositioned stance, primed and waiting for a beep.

    Thus, for most of us, we shouldn't be planning our gear around as if it were while sacrificing other factors that are arguably more important to begin with.
    This.

    So yesterday I was in a vehicle pursuit. Short version, stolen car that visited a known dope house flees from a neighboring district right at the border, I was close and ended up as second car. ONce there were three of us the lead car used PIT and the suspect car ended up against a tree on the passenger side. "Tactical V" put the PIT car holding his driver's side door closed with his bumper and me at the front bumper to keep him from driving off. This resulted in a whole metric shit ton of movement by the driver. As we all know, a bunch of movement is bad. In this scenario I start my draw as soon as I undo my seat belt since my hand is right there anyway and by the time I'm out of the car to take some cover behind the engine I'm up and ready. I would assume the carry position under discussion would make that more difficult.

    I am not in the last concerned with a few tenths of a second on the draw vs getting hung up in my vehicle and every vehicle I get is narrower than the last.
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  6. #26
    Site Supporter Erick Gelhaus's Avatar
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    Current best practices for high-risk vehicle stops do not include remaining seated in the car. They don't include staying at the door either.

    Not sure if I mentioned it or elsewhere ... if you go look at his material & data, he has looked at the inside a car issue.

    As a left-hander who isn't in the field training side of things anymore, I don't have the same concerns as some. If this is not something that will work in your world, you don't need to try it, let alone do it.

  7. #27
    Member TGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erick Gelhaus View Post
    Current best practices for high-risk vehicle stops do not include remaining seated in the car. They don't include staying at the door either
    Which might be a fair point, but cops are shot at while seated in their car all the time. BehindBlueI's incident is an excellent example of how a LEO might need their gun while seated. I'd still rank access while seated as being more important than tenths of a second on a preplanned draw. The author stated that 15* is the max amount he can do while still being able to draw seated, but that was the extent of what I saw him write about it.

    Like was said earlier in the thread, what is old is new again. I'm not sure there's a compelling reason to move to this practice when 1) I'm not aware of officers losing gunfights due to tenth of a second difference on draw times, whereas IFWA while seated is an issue that presents itself to LEOs over and over again, and 2) The older guys already learned hard lessons, which is why we went away from this practice to begin with.

    I've consistently picked holsters which sacrifice raw speed on prepositioned, primed/planned draws due to the benefits they offer me in other areas. YMMV.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vista461 View Post
    I used a qls to get my 6280 for my 92A1 vertical. It does seem like muzzle forward would be even better.
    I don’t understand why Safariland has the muzzle rearward cant built into their duty holsters.
    It is explained in the OP.

  9. #29
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    Hey, look at this pic of a holster specced out by the LE unit that gets in more armed confrontations with armed criminal predators in and around vehicles than any other: http://www.c-rusty.com/pages/holster...svertical.html

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by paherne View Post
    Hey, look at this pic of a holster specced out by the LE unit that gets in more armed confrontations with armed criminal predators in and around vehicles than any other: http://www.c-rusty.com/pages/holster...svertical.html
    Liked Rusty Sherrick's work for years. Now I may be getting to the point in my career where owning some of his horsehide is actually possible.

    pat

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