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Thread: Why P320 is so popular outside of pistol-forum

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    There’s a reason the P320 is gaining more popularity in USPSA than in IPSC. The arbitrary rule set that plays into the P320 in USPSA, or more accurately the P320 plays into the rule set.
    Not up to speed on IPSC PO and Production rules. What's that arbitrary ruleset in USPSA that the 320 exploits?

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by gato naranja View Post
    That almost sounds like what is killing participation at our local/regional stock car races.

    I sure wish I had realized 45 years ago that building a better mousetrap was not as important as marketing a better mousetrap or getting a government contract for mousetraps.
    The 320 does nothing better than most other striker fired pistols. A lot of what you see in sports is monkey see monkey do.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha Sierra View Post
    The 320 does nothing better than most other striker fired pistols. A lot of what you see in sports is monkey see monkey do.
    Lets compare the Glock 34 and X Five Legion.

    Legion has adjustable sights. Glock 34?
    Legion has a fiver optic front sight. Glock 34?
    Legion has a CO plate setup. Glock 34?
    Legion has a short trigger reset. Glock 34?
    Legion is at the maximum weight for 2 of the USPSA categories. Glock 34?

    Legions took the X five changes that competitive shooters were making (mine was in the shop doing that) and put them into the Legion. When has the Glock 34 been modified?

    EDIT: I could say the same about Walther's Q5 steel frame, both are made to compete right out of the box. Walther's looks more like a ray gun though, so it has the kewl factor.
    Last edited by Zincwarrior; 02-12-2020 at 10:32 AM.

  4. #94
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    Only somewhat related question, but what did John Hearne carry for duty pistol before he earned a turbo pin from Gabe White with an X-Five?

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokarev View Post
    Testing was conducted by the NIJ for CBP. Companies interested in competing for the contract submitted guns and paid NIJ to test them in accordance with the standards set by CBP.

    I believe USSS merely piggy backed off the CBP contract and did no additional testing on the gun.

    Also, the "beta tests" conducted by CBP were somewhat limited. Guns were shot in a closed environment and participants signed NDAs. Guns were not allowed off the testing venues and were not carried in the field. Tests done in field locations were one day only before moving on to the next location.

    The Glock and 320 were statistically tied after the testing phase was completed. Tie breaker was price.

    Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

    USSS bought / is buying the guns off the CBP contract, and may have had access to the CBP test data but they did their their own testing prior to that selection.

    Didn’t NIJ contract out the testing ? That is what they normally do with body armor testing:

    https://www.justnet.org/compliant/NI...oved-labs.html
    Last edited by HCM; 02-12-2020 at 11:27 AM.

  6. #96
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    I'm going to sound like a Glock fan-boy for part of this, but I actually don't like them much. They are butt ugly and the trigger sucks. That said I was forced into the Glock when my physical problems (arthritis in my shooting hand) forced me to give up on my beloved 1911s. The wider grip and softer recoil of the G21 made me into a user and carrier.

    If I had purchased every "Glock killer" and "better than a Glock" service style handgun that has come along since the mid-1990s, I would have a safe full of guns and magazines, and a drawer full of holsters, that could stock at least a counter in a gun shop. After putting several thousand rounds through the G21 I started carrying a Glock 30, then a G 30S when that idea caught on. My wife, who gave up competitive shooting but still wanted a gun around, opted for the Glock 19, a 2nd Gen because her small hand and fingers didn't come close to fitting Glock's finger grooves. I found another clean Gen 2 and bought it as a back-up for her. Couple years later I got a chance to buy a very tired police trade in G2 G19 for a stupid cheep price so now we have three of them laying around (OK - two are in the safe).

    We find ourselves Glock shooters when it isn't the first choice for either of us. But, Glocks are boringly reliable, I can replace parts even with my limited smithing skills, and at our age (early 70s) and condition we can still shoot them without hurting anything.

    One of the biggest arguments I hear and read in favor of the new SIG is it is so much more ergonomic than the Glock. Glocks apparently don't fit anyone well. However I'm always reminded of P-F's own Dagga Boy from the revolver section who once said, we are adaptive creatures with four fingers and an opposing thumb. Adapt to the tool and quit worrying about making the tool a perfect fit to you. Yea, he was talking about a revolver at the time but the concept still applies.

    If you like, own, or want a SIG P320 then God bless you and more power to you. It doesn't have to be "better" than the Glock, the M9, the HK, or anything else. If you want to try one, pay your money and take your chances. It might be your wonder gun. But please don't defend you choice by telling us it's better than everything else. Nothing, and I do mean NOTHING, is better than everything else.

    Dave

  7. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Zincwarrior View Post
    Lets compare the Glock 34 and X Five Legion.

    Legion has adjustable sights. Glock 34?
    Legion has a fiver optic front sight. Glock 34?
    Legion has a CO plate setup. Glock 34?
    Legion has a short trigger reset. Glock 34?
    Legion is at the maximum weight for 2 of the USPSA categories. Glock 34?

    Legions took the X five changes that competitive shooters were making (mine was in the shop doing that) and put them into the Legion. When has the Glock 34 been modified?

    EDIT: I could say the same about Walther's Q5 steel frame, both are made to compete right out of the box. Walther's looks more like a ray gun though, so it has the kewl factor.
    Actually, the Glock has shorter reset and a factory MOS system. That aside, USPSA shooters are totally focused on performance, and are buying the new Legion because they think they shoot it better. For every one shooter going from Legion back to Glock, there are ten going from Glock to the Legion. The higher level shooters in AZ are almost exclusively, with a few exceptions like FON (friends of Nils).
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Actually, the Glock has shorter reset and a factory MOS system. That aside, USPSA shooters are totally focused on performance, and are buying the new Legion because they think they shoot it better. For every one shooter going from Legion back to Glock, there are ten going from Glock to the Legion. The higher level shooters in AZ are almost exclusively, with a few exceptions like FON (friends of Nils).
    The legion 320 frame is a true innovation, a polymer frame with the weight of a metal frame. However, it is a completion only application. SIG specifically advises not to use the legion frame for duty use.

    Have there been durability issues with the legion frame in USPSA .

  9. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    The legion 320 frame is a true innovation, a polymer frame with the weight of a metal frame. However, it is a completion only application. SIG specifically advises not to use the legion frame for duty use.

    Have there been durability issues with the legion frame in USPSA .
    The 320 Legion pistols are all less than a year old, and the high time ones are probably still under 20,000 rounds. What is the issue with the Legion grip module for duty?
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    The 320 Legion pistols are all less than a year old, and the high time ones are probably still under 20,000 rounds. What is the issue with the Legion grip module for duty?
    I was told a durability issue. They didn’t go into detail but I know Magpul found differences in the strength and durability of different colors of the same polymers so can see the tungsten powder in the polymer changing the properties the material.

    The regular X5 grip shell and magwell are ok for duty so it seems to be a materials issue.

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