MULTIPLE J's VS SIX SHOT

[deflave]

Not sure about the LCR. It wasn't on my radar.
Holster can be whatever that individual prefers. Personally im pretty fond of a 642 in a pocket. However you cant get to that when sitting but its easy enough to palm and transfer to a jacket pocket. I my self am interested in an aiwb application with a 640 Pro or a 60 plus a big dot model in a pocket. Im really not sure how all this would shake out. Mike Pipes is the only person i know of who does this but Ive never had occasion to discuss it with him.
All in all its got to be safer than a striker fired AIWB. Thats primarily what I am looking at. Small lightweight safe easy to carry all the time and availability whether sitting or standing.

Pocket carry is necessary at times but in my experience it isn't ideal for a daily setup.

IWB's are great and I use them regularly. I have to go up in pant size and a notch on my belt to make this happen. If you're going to carry two, you're gonna have to widen things out even more. And I assumed you'd have to be capable of drawing either left or right handed? And if weight is a consideration you'd have to add in the weight of whichever AIWB holsters you opt for.

I do not know who Mike Pipes is but the notion of dropping empty revolvers and grabbing loaded revolvers sounds a bit unorthodox. And time consuming.

[rainman]

I keep telling myself I’m done with revolvers, but that dang 642 is so convenient. However, 2 Js lose the convenient factor for me, at which point I’d opt for a much more capable gun.

The 642 is very convenient and opens up options...

Not to mention the bulk of two j-frames versus a Glock 43x or P365. Two j-frames is more cubic inches of metal you're carrying, which isn't that easy. Where are you going to carry the second j-frame? Is that really feasible?

I'm in the process of transitioning from a 642 to a G43x for ease of carry and increased rounds on board. I find the thickness of the cylinder a bit of a pain to manage.

A 642 in a pocket (Aholster or Kramer pocket holster) can serve as a 'reload' for a G43/43X/48 carried AIWB. The AIWB is nearly always more accessible (and capable), but the 642 provides the ability to have a hand-on-hardware without actually drawing when being approached in a sketch situation. It also provides 5 extra rounds in a second, reliable, platform (albeit more difficult for most to shoot accurately).

YMMV.


-Rainman

[Rex G]

A J-Snub is just a bit too small, for my comfort, but I routinely carried multiple SP101 snub-guns, during personal time, in the 2002-2008 time frame, with the occasional six-shot revolver being part of the ensemble. This was when I was big-city policin’, and living very near my patrol area. Until this time, I had tended to dress-around my duty handgun, but I had started using a blocky G22 as a duty pistol, in early 2002, and truly concealing the rear of a Glock slide was a challenge.

To elaborate on the size factor, my hands are long, but narrow, and my fingers are skinny, so there is room, on an SP101’s grip, for the pinkie, so an SP101 does not behave like a sub-compact weapon, in my hands. Plus, the recoil dynamics of the J-Snub were, and are, less friendly to the base joint of my right thumb*. Over-sized grips would help, but that would make the J-Snub a large as the SP101.

Eventually, I acquired non-accessory-railed versions of my duty P229R DAK, settled upon a really good concealment rig, the Josh Bulman FDS, and learned to dress around double-column-mag pistols.

In retirement, now, I often carry revolvers, but the really good holsters make it more realistic to truly conceal six-shot revolvers, so, if I am carrying an SP101, or a pocketed J-Snub, I am likely to also be carrying a larger sixgun, if not a G17.

*My right thumb has not aged well. Shooting too many big-bore Magnums, in the Eighties, though N-Frames, with my K/L-sized hands, was, in hindsight, a very bad idea.

[BehindBlueI's]

Real answer: It's probably a wash. Do whatever.

More indepth (possibly overthought) answer:

Multiple guns are harder to retain is things go hands on. How realistic is that concern for you?

IMO, nothing is more overrated than the "NY reload" in today's world:
Is your draw speed really that much faster than your reload speed? Enough to matter?
Is breaking your firing grip and obtaining an entirely new one worth it, and can you get the same consistent grip every time with multiple guns to work through?
Are all these guns equally accessible to your strong hand?
What do you do with guns that have been fired but not emptied?
If you have two shots left in your first j-frame, what exactly do you do with it? Are you carrying reload strips as well? Where?


Do you really care about incremental differences in weight? For pocket or ankle carry I get it. For belt carry, I don't.


For folks in your situation, those who's threat level is quite low and a random crime by non-dedicated assailants is the most likely occurrence, the #1 way to win is a consistent presentation, by surprise, of a working firearm and then firing it before the assailant realizes you are not complying. If you're seated, say while driving, a pocket carry gun is likely inaccessible in that manner. I do like the idea of carrying two guns because of the advantages of different positions. Say an appendix carry with a pocket carry or a strong side carry with an ankle carry. I don't see the point of multiple belt carried guns all equally accessible to the strong hand.

Soooo...if I were going that route I'd probably go with a K-frame sized gun strong side and a j-frame tucked elsewhere. That way you get the best of both worlds. But I've largely given up carrying two guns when off duty. I'll probably get kilt in the streetz as a result, but I had a good run.

[Rex G]

BBI just raised some very valid concerns.

One concern, in particular, is protecting the holstered weapon(s) at contact distance. One solution is AIWB + 0300/0330. This keeps both weapons very accessible to one’s usual weapon hand, and reasonably accessible to one’s usual support-side hand, and one can, to a degree, protect both holstered weapons with one hand/arm. A similar option might be left + right AIWB.

Regarding reload speed, well, in my case, the lesser clearance, for a speedloader, with the five-shots weapons, is part of what led to my preference for carrying the second weapon, rather than speed loaders. Bianchi Slow* Strips serve nicely to transport reserve ammo. The second weapon IS the “speedloader.” A sixgun, unless it has over-sized grips/stocks, speed-loads so much more expediently, so I do like to carry speedloaders with sixguns.

Yes, I did mean to type the word “Slow.” Actually, Speed Strips are very fast for the first two rounds, which are inserted, simultaneously. The third and subsequent rounds are so very much slower, for a complete reload. Speed Strips do, of course, excel as a means of organizing spare ammo, for transport purposes.

During the speed-strip component of a snubby mini-class, taught by Michael De Bethencourt, at the Snubby Summit, I was the only one to load two, close the cylinder, and fire, in the scenario presented, while the other attendees struggled to complete a full reload. (Yes, it was, indeed, a lesson in load-two-and-re-engage.)

I had the advantage, in that class scenario, as loading-two-and-re-engaging had been part of my mindset for a number of years, by that point. This had started in 1984, when I had a six-round cartridge-loop holder, on my duty belt, in addition to the double speedloader pouch. Somewhere along the way, I switched to a 2x2x2 carrier, on the duty belt, when I found one with the appropriate, regulation gloss-black finish.

The “Newhall Massacre,” in 1971, had served as a teaching moment, as it appeared that one trooper had dutifully completed a six-round reload, and then been shot, at very close range, right before he could re-engage. A load-two-and-re-engage might have saved his life. (Four CHP troopers were slain, at the scene of a traffic stop, by two felons.)

[BillSWPA]

Looking at some of the solutions proposed in this thread, what do they have to offer over a semiauto with a 10-15 round magazine?



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[psalms144.1]

Back around 2004, I conducted a test of the "NY reload." I was using my issued P228, with a Kahr PM9 and a 642 as BUGs. I shot a modified "El Prez" with randomly loaded magazines in the P228 so I couldn't predict the timing of the slide lock. I shot the control with multiple magazines - in other words, just keeping my primary in the fight.

Then I shot the drill with the PM9 as a BUG in multiple carry positions, including ankle, weak side cross draw, weak side IWB, weak side front pocket, weak side rear pocket, and strong side back pocket. What I found was my total drill times and accuracy were significantly better reloading the primary EXCEPT from the weak side cross draw and strong side rear pocket - mainly because drawing/shooting the subcompact BUG WHO was not a great solution for me.

I repeated these strings with the 642 in all the same positions, and, unsurprisingly found all my times to be measurably slower, with significant changes (negative changes) in accuracy - especially WHO shooting of the j-frame.

A couple of notes on the drills - the 642 was loaded with our issued 158 gr +P SWCLHP, so it was a LOT harder to control in recoil than the PM9. Likewise, in some instances (when my buddy fucked me and only put one or two rounds in the 228 magazine), I had to reload the BUGs - at which point the PM9's magazine feed made it a much better performer than the 642.

Because it was an issued gun, I did the fastest but least tactically sound "transition" with it - dumping it empty into the gravel. Were I to take the time to reholster before reaching for the BUG, that would have added significant time.

I also shot the drill using the 642 as my "primary" and transitioning to the PM9 - these were the only drills where a transition to a BUG was faster than reloading. I will freely admit, speed reloading round guns is NOT a skill I practice a lot, but it was still faster to transition than my best, smoothest reload with the little j-frame.

What does all of this mean for the OP? Maybe nothing. He's not talking about carrying a compact pistol versus a pair of snubs; he's talking about whether 10 rounds in two snubs is "better" than 6-7 in a steel frame round gun. Even in that position, though, I'm in agreement with BBI that I will almost always opt for simplicity, and feeding/controlling one easier to shoot revolver is probably a "better" solution than two smaller, harder to shoot revolvers.

YMMV, of course, and this is just one guy's opinion, and worth precisely what you paid for it.

[03RN]

Looking at some of the solutions proposed in this thread, what do they have to offer over a semiauto with a 10-15 round magazine?
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More comfort and power if needed. If grappling less likely to be pushed out of battery.

Im not sure anyone is saying a revolver is a better fighting tool than a g19.

[BillSWPA]

More comfort and power if needed. If grappling less likely to be pushed out of battery.

Im not sure anyone is saying a revolver is a better fighting tool than a g19.

Re: comfort: When I carry a backup gun, I have invariably found that a smaller, lighter backup gun is often significantly less comfortable than my larger, heavier primary gun, simply because of where I must put the backup gun. If my backup gun is in a weak side pocket, that is completely comfortable. If it ends up on my ankle, then comfort really decreases.

[03RN]

Re: comfort: When I carry a backup gun, I have invariably found that a smaller, lighter backup gun is often significantly less comfortable than my larger, heavier primary gun, simply because of where I must put the backup gun. If my backup gun is in a weak side pocket, that is completely comfortable. If it ends up on my ankle, then comfort really decreases.

I was referring to a full sized primary.