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Thread: Trigger Operation..Simple as???

  1. #11
    Worth adding that trigger finger placement myth we all know, put the tip of your finger on the trigger... came from bullseye shooting with hair triggers that just touching it would set the round off. Not gonna cut the mustard with combat pistol shooting, use whatever works best to get enough leverage to break the shot properly. This is different for everybody!

  2. #12
    Member MVS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P.E. Kelley View Post


    .
    Repeatable trigger operation starts with grip! I have said it in a video, “you can hold the gun upside down and trip the trigger with your pinky…for ONE accurate shot” but to repeat that shot at speed…ya got to have good grip mechanics!

    ..
    My friend Randy Harris has said this ever since I met him and often demos it in class to make the exact point you are making.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by P.E. Kelley View Post
    Thank you for this platform where we can discuss techniques without too much fear of being berated etc...
    I've really enjoyed your Out of the Box videos, and you are certainly not full of shit.

    I will say that trigger type can affect one's thinking and approach when it comes to defensive use of the firearm even if the core technique doesn't change between them. For example, with a 1911 one must have absolute confidence in the use of the safety whereas with a double action pistol you have the long first trigger pull that can be an advantage in such a scenario.

    I think Ernest Langdon also has a really good take on this subject.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thy.Will.Be.Done View Post
    Worth adding that trigger finger placement myth we all know, put the tip of your finger on the trigger... came from bullseye shooting with hair triggers that just touching it would set the round off. Not gonna cut the mustard with combat pistol shooting, use whatever works best to get enough leverage to break the shot properly. This is different for everybody!
    Heck, it's different for me with different guns, and sometimes with different holds on the same gun. Especially one-handed vs. two-handed on a j-frame.

    My new rule is "get everything else right, make contact with the trigger where it is natural after that."
    REPETITION CREATES BELIEF
    REPETITION BUILDS THE SEPARATE WORLDS WE LIVE AND DIE IN
    NO EXCEPTIONS

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by P.E. Kelley View Post
    Not sure if this furthers the on going “how-to” pull a trigger discussions, but maybe this will help a few of you. Or maybe I am full of shit.
    I'd say that this is extremely valuable. You say that it all starts with grip. Could you describe correct grip? Is it as simple to you as your description of correct trigger press? I absolutely believe you that grip is essential, but I also am currently struggling to appreciate just what makes "good" grip.

  6. #16
    A “good” textbook grip for me is impossible, due to small hands. I have to curl my hand around the grip pretty far.

    Reaching the trigger for a decent press is first priority for me.




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  7. #17
    Site Supporter P.E. Kelley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arcfide View Post
    I'd say that this is extremely valuable. You say that it all starts with grip. Could you describe correct grip? Is it as simple to you as your description of correct trigger press? I absolutely believe you that grip is essential, but I also am currently struggling to appreciate just what makes "good" grip.
    Guns are just machines and without you they can do no harm, nor any good

  8. #18
    Site Supporter JohnO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P.E. Kelley View Post

    Repeatable trigger operation starts with grip! I have said it in a video, “you can hold the gun upside down and trip the trigger with your pinky…for ONE accurate shot” but to repeat that shot at speed…ya got to have good grip mechanics!

    I have learned a bunch from doing this Out of the Box stuff. Over the years I have come to the current thinking (current, as I am still learning)

    ALL handguns have different grips, yet get that same good grip technique.
    ALL guns have different triggers yet I try to run them all the same way.

    I work to pull the trigger straight through, in one motion. No concern for walls, weight, stacking, creep, hitches, over-travel what have you. The speed needed for the shot determines how fast the motion is, but I try to make that speed linear.

    I don’t "stage" a trigger unless the shot it so precise that is it required (and that is mostly required because I have not yet learned to trust what I see at the final break, so I will slow down at the break so I can “see”, but I do not stop the motion)

    Call it constant motion if you like, but that is how I approach every trigger, in every application.
    Trigger manipulation and grip as i see it are interrelated due to geometry and familiarity.

    Geometry because your finger's movement is dictated by the position of the hand. The way your finger moves through space to accomplish a task will be different based upon where the hand is located and how it is positioned. Typically you will settle upon a position from which you are best able to perform the task.

    Familiarity because as described above there will be an ideal position from which to accomplish the task. Once you deviate from that ideal position a new and unfamiliar movement pattern needs to be employed.

    One of the benefits of constant trigger motion is less time to introduce error.

  9. #19
    Site Supporter P.E. Kelley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnO View Post
    Trigger manipulation and grip as i see it are interrelated due to geometry and familiarity.

    Geometry because your finger's movement is dictated by the position of the hand. The way your finger moves through space to accomplish a task will be different based upon where the hand is located and how it is positioned. Typically you will settle upon a position from which you are best able to perform the task.

    Familiarity because as described above there will be an ideal position from which to accomplish the task. Once you deviate from that ideal position a new and unfamiliar movement pattern needs to be employed.

    One of the benefits of constant trigger motion is less time to introduce error.

    Bloody well said JohnO!
    Guns are just machines and without you they can do no harm, nor any good

  10. #20
    Chasing the Horizon RJ's Avatar
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    I stumbled into this thread after my Classifier Saturday. I had 2xC’s low right (I’m a lefty also) in each of the three paper targets. As a stage, I shot it left to right quickly. Each target was grouped well, but C’s are not Alphas. Plus I needed 5 rounds to knock down the two steel. Ugh.

    This video really resonates with me. I can peg 1” squares at 5 yards shooting slow, so I’m definitely going to use this thread to work on 1) a good grip and 2) pressing straight through, at speed.

    Thanks Mr. Kelley.

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