vests chests rigs, you should have these, but that LBV-88 is like standard issue LARP gear for fatassed militia guys. Not that there's anything wrong with militias but you know what I mean if you've seen it before, LBV-88 cinched down over a 30 BMI like a corset, rambo/tanto knife, button down first aid and compass pouch (no maps), mini14 / sks if designated marksman
This is my lane.... As a Infantry Guy, who also is regularly involved with kit testing for MARCORSYSCOM and having a obsessive need to try to find the most comfortable way to carry everything... I have multiple bins of tactical shit, from Crye JPC's, Mayflower/Velocity systems test gear, old Eagle industries bomb proof stuff, issue armor, full on infantry belt kit's, rucks, assault packs, day packs,chest rigs- both full on combat loads and minimalist, low pro/vis stuff, belt mounted kit, both on assaulter/inner/outer belts and regular pants belts, along with some other more specialized carry methods. I've played with a lot of it and have slowly came to some opinions on much it. As Pat Rogers used to say "Mission drives the gear train", and it seems like you have pretty much defined your mission as localized home defense, possible egress (I don't care for the term bail out bag, unless you are a Cop or contractor under fire, ditching your ride in order to run the Mogadishu Mile...) and most likely carbine class use.
Rob S has a good point, recently being anti tactical seems to be the "new tactical thing" . But this can become problematic very quickly in a class setting. I typically conduct all of my reloads from a belt mounted pouch, and back fill that pouch with mags carried elsewhere on my body as I get a chance to do so. I cannot come up with a situation other that in a square range class where I would be standing in the open, not moving and burn through multiple magazines of ammo.... so I'll get a chance to back fill that primary pouch. As to what pouch for that location.... depends, I like the Esstac Kywi pouches belt mounted for a lot of stuff, the pistol ones will hold almost any mag, the rifle ones only really work for AR's though.... I also have a few HSGI Tacos mounted on moduloaders from RCS, you don't need to buy those anymore though as HSGI makes a belt mounted version.... These are great for AK's, Steyr AUG's and other non standard stuff if you have it.... I have Kydex from multiple makers, most work pretty good and will serve you fine, I also regularly use the bladetech carriers for rifle mags, especially as quick add on's to the belt. One or two of any of the above mentioned pouches will honestly probably cover anything you really need. More than that though starts to get unwieldy on the belt. I can conceal (from casual glance) the two pistol mags, rifle mag, TQ Holder and Holster on a belt with a cover garment pretty easy, moving in and out of the car or truck, or conducting daily activities is not hindered too much.... More than that though becomes problematic.
This is where several specialized load carriage devices can become useful. Accept that your primary task, even during unrest, is not to actually fight with a long gun, it is to do a myriad of other tasks while remaining capable of responding with appropriate force if so required. Thus anything that you are carrying that inhibits the primary tasks you are attempting to conduct will not be at hand when you actually need it.... You will wear all that kit religiously for 24 hours... by the end of the week you will be doing the back pocket mag carry..... So have that single mag or two on your pants belt, that way you have it.
Make the rig that you wear to carry extra load easy to carry and put on, I personally like the First Spear Modular Fight Strap, its basically a modernized bandoleer that you can attach pouches to. Mine has pouches from HSGI on it, Three rifle / pistol Tacos, BOK, TQ carrier and a old eagle single pistol mag pouch with a leather-man tool in it. Total load, Leatherman, three rifle mags, two pistol mags, spare surefire handheld, BOK and TQ, It has a waist strap to hold it to your body and a single shoulder strap. FAST... the nice thing about this is you can rig it to hang like a chest rig if you want or have it hang at your weak side, and the waist strap will hold it in place.
Another non standard option might be the contractor bag, just be careful as you can rapidly overload these, you can get them in not as tactical colors though and then it just looks like a small diaper bag or man purse.... If you chose one of these utilize the waist strap, otherwise it will flop everywhere...
If going for the standard style chestrig, the fastest ones on open in the front and go on like a vest. Limit the load to 3 or 4 rifle mags, maybe a spare pistol mag and first aid stuff. I also like using a waist pack as a IFAK as that way I can keep that stuff with me when I take off the rest of my gear. The blue force gear rig is a good option for a basic stitched down rig that can accept a pouch or two being added to it. SKD offers a modernized version of the old Eagle Paul Howe/ CSAT chest rig that is good to go as long as you don't overload it. ATS offers a three mag chest rig as well, that has two built in side pockets that can serve as a BOK and small spares pouch as well. The Haley rigs and such are good quality kit but spendy. If you are never going to buy armor and need the placard capability that they offer I would not spend the money. on one of them.
If you ever contemplate buying armor, then as a civilian I would recommend purchasing a carrier that integrates placard systems such as offered by Velocity Systems/ Mayflower et al... and get the chest rig/ placard now to match, this way everything remains the same, all you are doing is adding armor. There is something to be said for the idea that if the rifle comes out perhaps armor should as well. However it is a pretty big investment for a small chance need.... and it goes all the way back around to the argument that if during unrest that If I saw you running through my neighborhood fully kitted up then you will most likely be considered at first a threat until I identify otherwise, I'm sure others would be running through the same evaluation criteria as well.....
After saying all that I think for your use a few belt pouches you will actually take with you in your range bag and use and a simple bandoleer or chest rig to back fill those pouches will be the most useful, with a bandoleer or go bag you could even justify them as mag carriers to the range to get some more practical use out of them...
You might consider a Sneaky Bag as an alternative to a chest rig. I have one that is several years old, and it was designed to be a fighting bag for a rifle. I think their design has changed since then, but mine is about the size of a medium Shoulder Utility Bag (SUB). It has two rifle mag pouches sewn into the large pocket and spots for three pistol mags in the outer pocket. Also has a waist belt to keep it from flopping around. I've never used any sort of chest rig, so I can offer a direct comparison.
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I would agree. There's a fair bit of material written on the subject, and while there's value in all that projecting-power / patrolling / small unit shit, I just don't see the point unless you're looking at an incredibly long-term breakdown. Even California doesn't suck that bad.Originally Posted by Hambo
So what do you actually need to do? Go out, get some water, get some gas, get some food, and not get shot doing so. I honestly think you'd be better off with:
*concealed handgun + magazines
*IFAK, flashlight, knife (basic survival stuff) on your person, whether it's belt or pockets
*backpack to hold water and snack, barter items, or whatever you're sticking your neck out to get, so your hands are free
Yeah, chest rigs and such are really useful--take a look at any good warzone, and count how many you see among starving, dirt-poor 3rd-world fighters--but they definitely make you stand out. And you're not there to get in a fight. But if you want it to maybe LARP a little, or do a class, that's fine, go for it.
Ton of good stuff here.
Something else to consider, if you do have a train-like-fight attitude, is to make sure that you're not making rifle decisions that negatively impact your pistol decisions. For the vast majority of us, our pistol is our primary, not our secondary. You see a lot of guys lose track of this and they go chest rig, then bigger chest rid, then it conflicts with t heir pistol so they go war belt and drop holster... It's a slippery slope.
IMO if you're a civilian (whether a cop or a concealed carry guy) you should make sure that your rifle gear works with your pistol gear. Does that chest rig conflict with your junk-carry holster? Or your duty holster? I wouldn't go making changes to that if you are concern about train-like-fight.
FWIW, I don't necessarily believe in all that as hard as I used to. When you're starting out I think it matters a lot more than it does 10, 15, 20 years into all this nonsense. Very early on in my "carry career" I would be at the range and start to reach for a location that I used to carry, or where I carried in matches, instead of where the guy actually was. That's much less of a concern for me now as I'm pretty conscious of where the gun is. But I still wouldn't go so nutty as to start getting into drop-legs, etc. If I was a junk-carry guy I don't know that I'd ever opt for a chest rig. In fact, that might be the one situation today where I'd maybe go trying to figure out some sort of padded belt I could put on over my carry gear, worn down at my hips, so as to allow me to maintain my carry holster location. In thinking about it though, I'd have to train on how to transition to a junk-carry pistol from a rifle since my current transition method would conflict pretty hard with that (not to say there isn't a way, just that it would be a pretty radical change for me).
All of that rambling to say, don't fuck with your EDC pistol logistics more than you have to, just for a carbine class.
Like many I experimented with a SKD/Eagle Howe rig. It seems like a lot of function for the money, but I don't need to carry around eight magazines, and I didn't care for the retention system. I moved on to lighter and simpler designs.
I still have an old Eagle Industries CP223 that holds four magazines and little else. It makes for a handy bandolier that also serves as a lightweight, simple, ChiCom style chest rig. When not in use it folds up and stows away easily. Unfortunately the CP223 isn't in production any more, but it may be possible to find one. Blackhawk still makes a copy, but they doubled the magazine capacity, which I think missed the point.
I also have an early version of the Haley Strategic D3 rig for use with a low profile Mayflower carrier. The placard integration system works well with armor. It is pricey but well made. I like the fact that the armor carrier can essentially remain slick but you can snap in a placard in seconds.
Be wary of the temptation to fill every piece of exposed MOLLE with a pouch. Stay simple and light. Make sure you can still go prone, sit in a vehicle, reach your pistol, etc.
"When the phone rang, Parker was in the garage, killing a man."
[QUOTE=JSGlock34;990065]Like many I experimented with a SKD/Eagle Howe rig. It seems like a lot of function for the money, but I don't need to carry around eight magazines, and I didn't care for the retention system. I moved on to lighter and simpler designs.
I still have an old Eagle Industries CP223 that holds four magazines and little else. It makes for a handy bandolier that also serves as a lightweight, simple, ChiCom style chest rig. When not in use it folds up and stows away easily. Unfortunately the CP223 isn't in production any more, but it may be possible to find one. Blackhawk still makes a copy, but they doubled the magazine capacity, which I think missed the point.
I also have an early version of the Haley Strategic D3 rig for use with a low profile Mayflower carrier. The placard integration system works well with armor. It is pricey but well made. I like the fact that the armor carrier can essentially remain slick but you can snap in a placard in seconds.
Be wary of the temptation to fill every piece of exposed MOLLE with a pouch. Stay simple and light. Make sure you can still go prone, sit in a vehicle, reach your pistol, etc.[/QUOTE
There is a simplicity to the older gear that I miss with a lot of the newer stuff on the market.... the attached photo of the UW gear 4 mag chest rig is about as close as I could find on the current market to the old Eagle 4 cells... or you can always try to get lucky on one of the equipment exchange sites.
Minimalist and/or CHICOM style chest rigs aren't anything rare. Here's competing products in the same genre just from SKD Tactical's website:
https://www.skdtac.com/Blue-Force-Ge...-p/bfg.510.htm
https://www.skdtac.com/vtac-molle-ch...-p/vkg.512.htm
https://www.skdtac.com/Spiritus-Syst...-p/spi.121.htm
https://www.skdtac.com/Esstac-Chest-...-p/ess.505.htm
Velocity Systems and SKD also feature some other stuff, where you can just put individual pouches or a placard on a bare chest rig.
"Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
Chest rigs are kinda like single-point slings - a trend caused by the necessities of vehicle-mounted ops and counterinsurgency type warfare.
It took quite a few scarred kneecaps and needlessly dangling rifles for people to realize that two-point adjustables are far superior to single-points for pretty much every application outside of vehicle-borne door kicking, and much like that scenario, you will in all likelihood find that having a classic belt rig that is either simply a so-called "battle belt" or belt+suspenders to be far more practical than having magazines on your chest.
Thanks for all the replies!
A lot of good information.
I’m definitely looking at the minimalist low profile side of the house. The main reason I mentioned the LBV 88 is that is what I was wearing when I was still in the Guard and I like it (it was better than the old LBE for sure) but a lot has advanced over the years.
Also interesting to consider the comments regarding post natural disaster response. Maybe pick that up in another thread?
Thanks again.
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