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Thread: RFI: .45 Auto Rim "Tier II" Loads

  1. #1
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    RFI: .45 Auto Rim "Tier II" Loads

    Quote Originally Posted by okie john View Post
    The 45 Auto Rim is an interesting proposition in the 625. For one thing, you can get a 250-grain bullet going 1,000 fps and not have to worry about someone shooting that ammo in a 1911.

    With 250-grain bullets in my 4” Model of 1989, I got the best results with a heavy roll crimp and 45 AR cases. Most 45 ACP dies will give you a roll crimp if you screw them down far enough, but that puts a massive taper crimp on the case first. That can screw up the driving band on a SWC, which opens up groups. The crimping shoulder in a 45 Colt die is too high for the AR case to reach, so I got a buddy to cut the bottom half-inch or so off of a spare 45 Colt crimp die. It looks kinda hillbilly, but it makes a proper roll crimp without the taper crimp and those loads were demonstrably more accurate in that gun.

    John Taffin has published good cast-bullet load data for the 45 AR. There's also a cult of 625 owners on the S&W forum. Those guys have lots expertise in using heavy cast bullets in the 45 AR.


    Okie John
    I'm considering going this route with my 625 5" Model of 1989.

    Anyone else have any experience with this flavor of heavy Auto Rim loads? I am all ears.

    I currently have a Lee cheapo set-up, and a .45 ACP die set. H110 has been my standard powder for heavy .357 loads. Not looking to load in a lot of volume.
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  2. #2
    Look at Unique, HS6, AA9, and 2400.


    Okie John
    “The reliability of the 30-06 on most of the world’s non-dangerous game is so well established as to be beyond intelligent dispute.” Finn Aagaard
    "Don't fuck with it" seems to prevent the vast majority of reported issues." BehindBlueI's

  3. #3

    RFI: .45 Auto Rim "Tier II" Loads

    You’ll want to get a roll crimp die for .45 amp/ar. Redding makes one: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012355584

    H110 probably is too slow for this application. I’ve not tried it, but when I ran it through Quickload, the numbers were difficult to make work. It really depends on how high you want to go with pressure. Some of John Taffin’s loads seem pretty hot in Quickload, but reasonable if you set your pressure threshold to .45 super loads. Also, you can seat heavy bullets quite long in .45 ar, and I didn’t spend the time in Quickload to model this. I took a straight .45 ar cartridge data and tried some powder and bullet combos.

    Start with John Taffin’s articles. Then look at .45 Super load data. Go from there. Seat the bullet as far out as possible.


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    Last edited by john c; 01-31-2020 at 12:03 AM.

  4. #4
    I take back what I said about H110 and the .45 AR. I just ran the numbers, and it looks like, according to QuickLoad, a max load under a 230 grain FMJ bullet is running 18k PSI. That seems comfortable for the gun/cartridge combinations. However, the predicted velocity is less than faster powders like Power Pistol.

    I'm not going to specify the load data because 1) this is from a computer simulation of the cartridge and 2) don't trust some random guy on the internet. This is just an indication that you should look further into this combination, if you're interested.

  5. #5
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    The 45 AR has limited case capacity as does it's parent case, the 45 ACP, even when the bullet is seated farther out of the case. I suggest using Unique because it's burning rate is more compatible with the smaller case capacity of the Auto Rim. Shot to shot velocity variation will be minimal. Muzzle flash will be less than that of H110(Win 296) or 2400. H110 is at the very top of the list of slow burning powders. It is best suited with higher capacity cases where it is used to produce high velocity loads within acceptable pressure levels. In this application the same statement applies to 2400.

    We must match case capacity and bullet weight to burning rate. If these three variables are incompatible, then we do not produce optimal loads. Compatibility is not either/or. Instead it often is a matter of degree. My opinion is that of the three powders above, Unique best matches case capacity, burning rate, and bullet weight.

  6. #6
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    Alliant has .45 ACP+P data for BE-86 with 230-grain bullets here. I just started using this powder with 9x19 and found that it surprisingly delivers close to advertised velocity in that cartridge. Next up for me is .45 ACP, though I'll be looking for hardball equivalent loads. I'll be looking for some .45 AR loads with commercial 255-grain SWCs at about 850 fps for my M22 - don't want the recoil to get too spicy with the tapered barrel.

  7. #7
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    I've used 6.5 Unique with the 240 and 250 Keith bullets. I don't believe there's a deer (or likely elk either) in the US that can stop one of these bullets at this level, which is fairly easy to shoot and very accurate in my 625 Mountain Gun (pre-lock).

    There's an old "formula" I've seen about game loads in a pistol that works very well: 900 fps or more; .4 caliber or larger and a meplat that is at least 60% of bullet diameter; cast at a BHN of no harder than 10 and that fits chamber throats properly. This will give great accuracy and kill four (and two) legged critters very dead, very quickly.
    Regional Government Sales Manager for Aimpoint, Inc. USA
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by revchuck38 View Post
    Alliant has .45 ACP+P data for BE-86 with 230-grain bullets here. I just started using this powder with 9x19 and found that it surprisingly delivers close to advertised velocity in that cartridge. Next up for me is .45 ACP, though I'll be looking for hardball equivalent loads. I'll be looking for some .45 AR loads with commercial 255-grain SWCs at about 850 fps for my M22 - don't want the recoil to get too spicy with the tapered barrel.
    Try 6.0 Unique for this. That's a near classic load in .45 AR with the big Keith bullet.
    Regional Government Sales Manager for Aimpoint, Inc. USA
    Co-owner Hardwired Tactical Shooting (HiTS)

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Dobbs View Post
    Try 6.0 Unique for this. That's a near classic load in .45 AR with the big Keith bullet.
    Thanks! I'll probably start with 5.5 grains of BE-86. It's a bit faster than Unique and the standard commercial SWCs need to be seated deeper than Keith's 454424 design.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Dobbs View Post
    I've used 6.5 Unique with the 240 and 250 Keith bullets. I don't believe there's a deer (or likely elk either) in the US that can stop one of these bullets at this level, which is fairly easy to shoot and very accurate in my 625 Mountain Gun (pre-lock).

    There's an old "formula" I've seen about game loads in a pistol that works very well: 900 fps or more; .4 caliber or larger and a meplat that is at least 60% of bullet diameter; cast at a BHN of no harder than 10 and that fits chamber throats properly. This will give great accuracy and kill four (and two) legged critters very dead, very quickly.
    I've had a lot of luck with the 900/.4/60 formula in Model 29 variants. The part that most folks screw up is the 10 BHN. Everyone wants to be north of 16 and that's just too hard.


    Okie John
    “The reliability of the 30-06 on most of the world’s non-dangerous game is so well established as to be beyond intelligent dispute.” Finn Aagaard
    "Don't fuck with it" seems to prevent the vast majority of reported issues." BehindBlueI's

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