9mm 1911 and the 10-8 Extractor Test

[Jason Burton]

A 1911 extractor, regardless of caliber, needs to control the fired case in the same manner. Often times a 9mm extractor may not have enough height and/or range of motion to control the fired case as it slides down the breech-face during link-down.

You can adjust the range of motion/amount of deflection by modifying the fitting pad behind the extractor hook to allow the hook to move further inward. Be careful that the front of the extractor hook is not contacting the cartridge case.

If the extractor is set up correctly another place to look is the ejector to insure it has enough contact with the case. With a round under the extractor and pushed as high on the breech face as possible will the ejector still contact the case enough to eject it?

[45dotACP]

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You can adjust the range of motion/amount of deflection by modifying the fitting pad behind the extractor hook to allow the hook to move further inward. Be careful that the front of the extractor hook is not contacting the cartridge case.

If the extractor is set up correctly another place to look is the ejector to insure it has enough contact with the case. With a round under the extractor and pushed as high on the breech face as possible will the ejector still contact the case enough to eject it?

By this, do you mean that only the tensioning wall of the extractor should be in contact with the case? Or do you mean that the nose of the extractor should not be contacting the beveled part of the shell casing?

Also, for 9mm 1911s how long of an ejector do you tend to run? I have seen extended ejectors before, but the one on my Colt Commander is longer even than a standard extended ejector.

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[Jason Burton]

By this, do you mean that only the tensioning wall of the extractor should be in contact with the case?

There are two methods (opposing methods??) on what part of the extractor should contact the case. The easiest answer is this, on a 9mm I want as much contact with the case as possible during the entire firing cycle without forcing the case to sit off the breech-face or resulting in any unde impact to the extractor. Additionally, in 9mm I have found some extractors result in more/better case contact than others due to having a taller (vertically) hook.

Or do you mean that the nose of the extractor should not be contacting the beveled part of the shell casing?

Yes, the extractor (for any caliber) should not be making contact with the angled portion of the case forward of the rim.

Also, for 9mm 1911s how long of an ejector do you tend to run? I have seen extended ejectors before, but the one on my Colt Commander is longer even than a standard extended ejector.

A 9mm ejector will be longer than that of a 45ACP. I personally want the ejector long enough that it contacts and begins to move the fired case before the next round in the magazine moves high enough to contact it.

[farscott]

Think of the Aflac insurance commercial duck, but instead hear Aftec.

Seriously, I don’t know why these things aren’t more popular. No bending, no tweaking, and they apply pressure more linear.

I have had good experience with the AFTEC extractor in 9x19 guns with the possible exception of getting the extractor into the slide. I inevitably am one hand short as I need one hand to slip a screwdriver into the channel, one to insert the extractor, and one hand to hold a light in the right place so I can be sure a spring did not pop out of position. I finally opted for a small bench vise and fiber optic lights.

Once the extractor is properly installed in the slide, extraction has been positive. I have a few spare spring sets for the extractor, but, so far, none have been needed. I detail strip the slide every year or 5,000 rounds (whichever comes first) as the extractor channel does get dirty. It is a bit of a hassle and nothing ever to do in the field as the springs are tiny. The Wilson Combat extractor looks appealing as there are no springs to get lost.

[StraitR]

There are two methods (opposing methods??) on what part of the extractor should contact the case. The easiest answer is this, on a 9mm I want as much contact with the case as possible during the entire firing cycle without forcing the case to sit off the breech-face or resulting in any unde impact to the extractor. Additionally, in 9mm I have found some extractors result in more/better case contact than others due to having a taller (vertically) hook.




Yes, the extractor (for any caliber) should not be making contact with the angled portion of the case forward of the rim.




A 9mm ejector will be longer than that of a 45ACP. I personally want the ejector long enough that it contacts and begins to move the fired case before the next round in the magazine moves high enough to contact it.

Thanks, Jason, this is excellent and easily digestible information.

Would you care to share your brand preference for 9mm extractors, the one's you've found to have a taller hook facilitating more/better case contact through the cycle of operation?

[jeep45238]

One of my 9mm 1911's passes flawlessly - absolutely predictable ejection pattern out of a S.A. Range officer 'elite' model straight out of the box (added a dovetail mount red dot)and has an extended ejector. The D.W. Valor is horrific, and without a mag will eject anywhere from straight up, to 9 o'clock, 1,2,3,4,5,6 o'clock, but doesn't choke - it's been through Dan Wesson's custom shop (shorty ejector). Both pass the 'shake it shake it' test with a loaded round, The Valor not as good no matter how much tension is applied, as there's a bit of a jiggle when shook hard. The SA extractor's hook is the only part that makes contact, in the web above the cartridge rim; the Valor is the same, but just barely.

The pad hook on the Valor is keeping the hook away from the centerline compared to the S.A.. Can't remember my terminology right now, but the center 'lug' that strips the round on the bottom of the slide and has the disconnector cut away - I used that as the visual reference between the hook and the centerline as a judge of distance. Judging from this and the info in this thread, it appears the pad on the Valor extractor isn't filed down enough, which isn't allowing for enough deflection. This should mean that while more tension can be applied to the extractor, it can only travel so far into the case, and this creates a limit on how much tension the case itself sees regardless of the extractor tension (past a certain point).

[Jason Burton]

Would you care to share your brand preference for 9mm extractors, the one's you've found to have a taller hook facilitating more/better case contact through the cycle of operation?

Right now I am using Caspian extractors in 9mms.

[Duckysattva]

Resurrecting an old thread but thought it may be appropriate since 9mm 1911s and their extractors seem to be different enough to warrant conversation specific to the caliber and hopefully anyone that runs into the same issue with theirs will be able to find this thread easily as I was given the title.

I've been shooting a Warren Tactical Series 9mm recently and tried the 10-8 Extractor Test as I've been trying to better understand the workings of the 1911 and better myself as an American. The pistol works great with a magazine installed but fails the 10-8 test spectacularly, routinely extracting empty cases from the chamber but not fully ejecting them then crushing the mouth of the empty case against the barrel hood or just dropping them out of the magwell.

I wanted to take a closer look at the extractor and case interface to see what I could see. What I'm seeing and crappy pictures below:

1. Good (maybe too good) tension on the extractor to pin the case to the left guide block. Loaded nor empty cases are easily shaken out. Lots of tension on 9mm extractors appears to be the norm across the board and was suspected to be the case in TLG's test WTS as well https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....en-1911-s-Guts.

2. Extractor appears to be too long with the nose far enough forward that it's making contact with the rebate and preventing the round from being held square against the breech face. Extractor nose does not appear to be contacting the barrel best I can tell by installing the barrel to index the round on the extractor and check engagement.

3. All of the tension is being applied to the case via the claw vs. the tensioning wall. This seems to be a subject of debate in 9mm 1911 vs. .45 1911 extractor fitting schools of thought; in .45 it seems everyone agrees that the tensioning wall should be making contact with the rim while in 9mm, the claw contacting the inner radius of the rim to provide tension seems to be accepted (due to the smaller diameter of the case?).

4. Bonus observation of latest breakdown is the slide stop engagement at the radii on the barrel lugs seems to leave a bit to be desired but I've only sent ~500 rounds through it at this point so maybe this will even out.







My biggest concern is reliability; the extractor not fitting well bugs me badly and right now, to me is the primary suspect causing failures. I've had 3 stoppages when running the pistol with a mag inserted, 2 were while using the Springfield provided mags and 1 with Wilson Combat ETMs - probably used for 75-80% of the rounds through it.

Should I send this thing back to Springfield outlining the issue with the extractor and request them to make it right or send it to a good smith to fit an extractor and maybe a spare? SACS seems to have mixed reviews of late for Customer Service so it gives me a bit of pause. I'd hate to send it to them to have them function check it with mags and decide it was good to go and send it back without addressing the extractor geometry. Any thoughts on Springfield's responses to things like this from the experts here?

[45dotACP]

I don't know if springfield would make it correctly, because their opinions on the debate of how to fit an extractor might be different than yours...I'd probably attempt to fit a new one myself in a way that doesn't have the nose contact the rebate and has no claw contact either.

Tensioning wall is the way, IMO. But then I'm not a professional gunsmith, just a hobbyist.

You might also want to jump down the rabbit hole on ejector tuning also.

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[Duckysattva]

Deleted, not sure why the double post.