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Thread: Reliability of soft points in ARs

  1. #1

    Reliability of soft points in ARs

    In the post on 5.56 mm Duty Loads DocGKR wrote:

    "Be cautious with the exposed lead on some JSP designs. Often they will run great for up to 200-300 rounds, but then mysterious feeding failures will begin as a result of lead build-up on the feed ramps. I have personally seen this occur with a variety of JSP's including 55 gr, 60 gr, and 64 gr in LE training courses. As soon as FMJ or OTM was substituted, all the feeding failures ceased."

    I am wondering if this is the case with the Speer .223 62 grain Gold Dot Soft point? In looking at the round it, it seems like the bullet's jacket extends all the way up so that there is no lead on the side of the bullet, only in its face. Hopefully this would prevent it from having lead

    Attached is a picture of a Winchester Ranger 64 grain Power-Point soft point (the bullet on the left) next to a Speer 62 grain Gold Dot Soft point.

    Name:  .223 gold dot.jpg
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  2. #2
    The amount of exposed lead on the tips of the Gold Dot loads is very minimal... not saying there could never be a problem, but I have not run into it. I'm also not firing hundreds of rounds in a single session. I'd be slightly more cautious of the Winchester or similar loads.

    I have shot quite a lot of my own reloads using 55gr Hornady soft points, and have also not had any trouble in various AR's besides one: An old RRA upper I had that came with the dremeled feed ramp cuts from the factory (back before most folks knew about M4 cuts, and when flash hiders and bayonet lugs were still verboten). That upper would occasionally catch a bullet tip at the upper-barrel extension junction and jam up. That wasn't from a buildup of lead... just crappy workmanship from RRA.

    I personally think its a non-issue outside of high round count training, if you keep up on maintenance.

  3. #3
    Site Supporter ST911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WDR View Post
    I personally think its a non-issue outside of high round count training, if you keep up on maintenance.
    Even in high round count training (subject to definition), the issue is significantly overgeneralized and under-detailed.

    @Ed L: No issues. For a period of time, GDSP skus on bid were cheap enough (esp the 24447 ICE load overruns) that it was practice ammo. Currently seeing folks using T223A and T223L for training paired with their corresponding bonded skus for carry. Then, umpteen 55 and 60 Hornady JSPs over the years, which are probably the softest and most exposed lead of the bunch.
    Last edited by ST911; 01-25-2020 at 10:11 AM.
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  4. #4
    Site Supporter DocGKR's Avatar
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    Some agencies in CA discovered function issues when doing larger round count training sessions (ex. 500 rds a day for 1 week) back when loads like the state contract non-bonded Win 64 gr JSP were used.

    This appears to be less of an issue with bonded JSP loads like the Gold Dot or TBBC.
    Facts matter...Feelings Can Lie

  5. #5
    Member L-2's Avatar
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    First of all, I'm going to admit my recollections may be flawed after almost 20 years of first being issued a Colt AR-15 with a few types of ammo.

    JSP. I seem to recall being issued and using Winchester jacketed soft point ammo. I remember the Winchester box had a picture of ground squirrel/praire dog looking animal on it. I loaded my 70 rounds into one 30 round and two 20 round mags. If I'd needed to chamber a round for an incident, but later ejected it after not needing to fire the rifle, I'd reload the ejected round into the mag. If the tip was too dented from that initial loading, I'd put that round with the dinged-up tip down at the bottom of the mag as it probably wouldn't chamber well as the first round from then on. As LE, we wouldn't be ejecting an unused round and just leaving it on the ground. It might have been more prudent to just collect the round and later dispose of it, but that was also inconvenient. There wasn't a communal location at the headquarters building to leave or dispose of a live round, plus, now I'd have one less round in my issued allotment.

    It was inconvenient to somehow procure spare issued ammo back then.

    Sometime later, I was issued a JHP .223 caliber ammo which didn't result in a dinged-up lead point (as there was none). I never had much interest or understanding as to how well the ammo would do ballistically in a shooting if I ever had to use it. All I understood was the .223 ammo was more likely to stay in a threat's body vs. a shotgun slug (as that was my other long gun option in a patrol car; we carried both).

    Except for the initial three-day AR-15 class or practicing off-duty on my own, I never shot a few hundred rounds at a time. I only shot the issued ammo up at qualification (twice/year) and was then reissued fresh ammo for duty use. When shooting on my own time, I didn't use costly JSP or JHP ammo, but some less expensive FMJ ammo I would have found for sale online. (for practice, I had to buy my own ammo)

    The short story was even one ding-up JSP could/would cause a first round chambering issue and not something I wanted to happen when exiting my patrol car with my rifle on a perceived hot-call.
    Last edited by L-2; 01-26-2020 at 09:57 PM.

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