Page 652 of 725 FirstFirst ... 152552602642650651652653654662702 ... LastLast
Results 6,511 to 6,520 of 7244

Thread: Coronavirus thread

  1. #6511
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    the Deep South
    Quote Originally Posted by Nephrology View Post
    Far better than expected. Whole committee will be quite pleased to send me back to clinic ahead of schedule in April.



    So to get into the weeds with you on this, I did see the proposed mechanism (lysosomal acidification) plus a few early in vitro studies (one in PLoS pathogens IIRC) looking at its role in viral replication, but my recollection is that viral fusion/exit from the endosome required endosomal acidification - quite the opposite from being deleterious (vs malaria where it directly targets the parasite's digestive vacuole, iirc).
    Congratulations on the meeting. That is very good news indeed!

    Getting back to the drug, yes, the anti-viral mechanism is via screwing with the host cell, but the anti-malaria mechanism is direct action against the parasite. I've only used it in a couple of experiments and those were antigen-processing experiments (cathepsins), which I presume is why it works for some autoimmune diseases. Oh well. Maybe for the next virus...

  2. #6512
    What's the scoop on Ivermectin. I see stories on it cropping up again. Don't know who/what to believe anymore.

  3. #6513
    Site Supporter OlongJohnson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    "carbine-infested rural (and suburban) areas"
    On the post-Thanksgiving spike prediction, I just spoke with a friend in another state whose family had themselves a super-spreading get together for the holiday. Now 12 known people sick with similar symptoms directly linked to it (a few who were not at the Thanksgiving event). They have all been tested, but not all the results are back yet. The results that are back are positive. The women all had very mild cases and are recovered from symptoms. Some of the men (young adult, middle aged and old) are having tougher times, but not worried about mortality at this point. No idea who brought it in.

    So yeah, numbers are up already, but are going to keep rising for a few weeks.

    Be careful out there!
    .
    -----------------------------------------
    Not another dime.

  4. #6514
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    the Deep South
    Quote Originally Posted by AKDoug View Post
    What's the scoop on Ivermectin. I see stories on it cropping up again. Don't know who/what to believe anymore.
    Pubmed had ~90 hits for "ivermectin covid"

    I think everyone can access this link: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02958-2

    Basically, there isn't strong data one way or the other yet. People are trying to run trials in Latin America, but everyone there is buying it over-the-counter and screwing up the trials. I'd be very surprised if anything ever comes of it. Then again, I've been surprised a lot this past year.

  5. #6515
    Quote Originally Posted by AKDoug View Post
    What's the scoop on Ivermectin. I see stories on it cropping up again. Don't know who/what to believe anymore.
    It is for when HCQ fails.



    Seriously, I am with you. I don't know who to believe anymore, and I am painfully short on time to read everything that everyone publishes.
    Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.

  6. #6516
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    USA
    Quote Originally Posted by AKDoug View Post
    What's the scoop on Ivermectin. I see stories on it cropping up again. Don't know who/what to believe anymore.
    Ivermectin? Ivomec? The stuff we spread as a drench dewormer on cattle 20 years ago? LOL!!!! I'll never get COVID!

  7. #6517
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Quote Originally Posted by OlongJohnson View Post
    On the post-Thanksgiving spike prediction, I just spoke with a friend in another state whose family had themselves a super-spreading get together for the holiday. Now 12 known people sick with similar symptoms directly linked to it (a few who were not at the Thanksgiving event). They have all been tested, but not all the results are back yet. The results that are back are positive. The women all had very mild cases and are recovered from symptoms. Some of the men (young adult, middle aged and old) are having tougher times, but not worried about mortality at this point. No idea who brought it in.

    So yeah, numbers are up already, but are going to keep rising for a few weeks.

    Be careful out there!
    We (me, swmbo, things 1 &2) had our first Thanksgiving at home because of the risk of spreading the disease. We normally go to her parents' house and spend a 4 day weekend with them and her brother's family (2 adults and 3 kids) all cooped up in the one house. We're all fine and haven't caught COVID yet, but we felt the risk was too great with her father having multiple health issues that contribute to poor outcomes with COVID.

    We did, however, go to my brother's place on Friday to spend the day with him and my mom. That was more of a personal decision that extended well beyond the "muh rights" argument.

    We won't be going anywhere for Christmas though. Tests in my town are running at nearly 15% positive rate and over 60% in the next town over (which is practically a 'burb of ours). That blows. The same reason that had us going to see my mom still exists, but the numbers are sobering and we can't risk it (nor can she come here). We're going to be doing a lot of video calling over the holiday period.

    Chris

  8. #6518
    THE THIRST MUTILATOR Nephrology's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    West
    Quote Originally Posted by AKDoug View Post
    What's the scoop on Ivermectin. I see stories on it cropping up again. Don't know who/what to believe anymore.
    Great anti helminth, almost certainly a terrible anti-viral

    Quote Originally Posted by YVK View Post
    It is for when HCQ fails.



    Seriously, I am with you. I don't know who to believe anymore, and I am painfully short on time to read everything that everyone publishes.
    UpToDate has a great summary of current evidence for pharmacotherapies for COVID-19. I assume you have access to UTD but if you don't I can always save as PDFs and email to you or post here or something.

    Here is their concluding section re:specific pharmacoTx for COVID19. First sentence captures the jist of it.

    ApproachThe optimal approach to treatment of COVID-19 is uncertain. Trial data suggest a mortality benefit with dexamethasone and a possible clinical benefit with remdesivir, but no other therapies have clearly proven effective. Based on the pathogenesis of COVID-19, approaches that target the virus itself (eg, antivirals, passive immunity, interferons) are more likely to work early in the course of infection, whereas approaches that modulate the immune response may have more impact later in the disease course.

    Thus, in addition to dexamethasone and/or remdesivir for eligible patients, we strongly recommend enrollment into a well-controlled clinical trial, when available. Our approach is consistent with recommendations from expert groups in the United States, which also endorse clinical trial enrollment. The IDSA additionally recommends that certain therapies (including convalescent plasma, lopinavir-ritonavir, tocilizumab, and famotidine) only be administered in the context of a clinical trial because of a greater level of uncertainty or potential for toxicity [32]. Similarly, the NIH COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines Panel specifically recommends against using certain therapies (including IL-6 pathway inhibitors, HIV protease inhibitors, ivermectin, interferons, and kinase inhibitors) outside the context of a clinical trial [4].

    A registry of international clinical trials can be found at covid-trials.org, as well as on the WHO website and at clinicaltrials.gov.

    We use a risk-based approach to try to enroll those patients who may be most likely to benefit. The approach is dependent on local availability of clinical trials and may not be universally applicable. Clinicians should consult their own local protocols for management.

    Defining disease severity — Mild disease is characterized by fever, malaise, cough, upper respiratory symptoms, and/or less common features of COVID-19, in the absence of dyspnea. Most of these patients do not need hospitalization.

    If patients develop dyspnea, that raises concern that they have at least moderate severity disease, and these patients often warrant hospitalization. Patients can have infiltrates on chest imaging and still be considered to have moderate disease, but the presence of any of the following features indicates severe disease:

    ●Hypoxia (oxygen saturation ≤94 percent on room air)

    ●Need for oxygenation or ventilatory support

    This definition is consistent with the definition used by the US Food and Drug Administration [138]. Some studies have used other features in addition to hypoxia to characterize severe disease, such as tachypnea, respiratory distress, and >50 percent involvement of the lung parenchyma on chest imaging [139].

    Thresholds for oxygen supplementation are discussed in detail elsewhere. (See "Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19): Critical care and airway management issues", section on 'Respiratory care of the nonintubated patient'.)

    Nonsevere disease — For most hospitalized patients with nonsevere disease, we suggest supportive care only, with close monitoring for clinical worsening. If they develop features of severe disease (eg, hypoxia or oxygen requirement (see 'Defining disease severity' above)), we treat them as described below. (See 'Severe (including critical) disease' below.)

    Some patients with nonsevere disease have laboratory abnormalities that are associated with progression to severe disease (table 1). We prioritize these patients for clinical trials for treatment of nonsevere disease in addition to monitoring them closely for progression. A registry of international clinical trials can be found at covid-trials.org. In the United States, EUAs have been granted for convalescent plasma and for remdesivir for hospitalized patients with COVID-19, regardless of severity. We do not use convalescent plasma outside clinical trials for patients with nonsevere disease. However, plasma obtained through the EUA may be a reasonable option for such patients in locations where access to clinical trials is limited, with the caveat that the benefit remains uncertain. We also do not routinely use remdesivir for patients with nonsevere disease, as studies suggest only a modest benefit of uncertain clinical significance in this population, availability may be limited, and we prioritize it for patients on low-flow oxygen at baseline. (See 'Convalescent plasma and other antibody-based therapies' above and 'Remdesivir' above.)

    We recommend not using dexamethasone in patients with nonsevere disease. (See 'Dexamethasone and other glucocorticoids' above.)

    Severe (including critical) disease — We prioritize COVID-19-specific therapy for hospitalized patients who have severe disease. The approach depends on the oxygen or ventilatory requirement:

    ●Patients with severe disease (ie, with hypoxia) but without oxygen requirement – For these patients, we suggest remdesivir; however, if supplies are limited, we prioritize remdesivir for patients on low-flow oxygen supplementation at baseline, as below. We suggest not using dexamethasone in such patients. Trial data in this population suggest that remdesivir may improve time to recovery and that dexamethasone does not confer a mortality benefit and may cause harm.

    ●Patients with severe disease who are receiving supplemental oxygen – For patients on supplemental oxygen (including those who are on high-flow oxygen and noninvasive ventilation), we suggest low-dose dexamethasone. Trial data suggest that dexamethasone improves mortality in patients who are on noninvasive oxygen supplementation; it is uncertain if there are particular patients in this relatively heterogeneous group who would benefit more than others.

    For patients who are on low-flow supplemental oxygen only, we also suggest remdesivir. Subgroup analysis of trial data suggests that remdesivir improves mortality in patients who are on low-flow supplemental oxygen, but clinical benefit is less certain in patients who need higher levels of noninvasive support (eg, high-flow oxygenation and noninvasive ventilation). We also suggest remdesivir in patients with higher levels of noninvasive support, but prioritize it for patients on low-flow supplemental oxygen.

    ●Patients with severe disease who require mechanical ventilation or ECMO – For such patients, we recommend low-dose dexamethasone as trial data suggest that dexamethasone improves mortality in this population. Because the clinical benefit of remdesivir is less certain for this population, we only suggest remdesivir in patients who have been intubated for a short period of time (eg, 24 to 48 hours). If the supply is limited, we prioritize remdesivir for patients who are on low-flow supplemental oxygen, as above.

    Remdesivir and dexamethasone have not been systematically evaluated in combination, however, based on their pharmacokinetic characteristics, a clinically significant drug interaction is not anticipated [140]. If dexamethasone is not available, other glucocorticoids at equivalent doses are reasonable alternatives. Remdesivir is approved or available for emergency use in some countries but is not universally available [141-143]. Furthermore, some guidelines panels suggest not using remdesivir because of a lack of clear reduction in mortality [34,43]. Details on administration of remdesivir and dexamethasone and the evidence supporting their use are found elsewhere. (See 'Remdesivir' above and 'Dexamethasone and other glucocorticoids' above.)

    In addition to these therapies, we often refer patients to clinical trials of other therapies, if they allow concurrent use of remdesivir and/or dexamethasone. Other therapies being evaluated in trials include additional antiviral agents, convalescent plasma, and immunomodulatory agents (including cytokine inhibitors and kinase inhibitors). A registry of international clinical trials can be found at covid-trials.org. Detailed discussion of these agents is found elsewhere. (See 'Specific treatments under evaluation' above.)

    We do not routinely use convalescent plasma outside clinical trials because a clear clinical benefit has not been demonstrated. In the United States, convalescent plasma is available through EUA, and other clinicians may choose to use it as additional therapy for patients with severe disease. If used, the potential benefit appears most likely with administration early in the course of severe disease, when virus replication appears to be greatest (ie, prior to the need for intubation). (See 'Convalescent plasma and other antibody-based therapies' above.)

    Although baricitinib has also been granted EUA to be used in combination with remdesivir for patients on oxygen or ventilatory support, we await additional data on the effect of baricitinib before using it with remdesivir in such patients. (See 'Remdesivir' above and 'Others' above.)

    We generally suggest against off-label use of other agents. Although repurposed use of agents available for other medical indications has been described, for most of these agents there are insufficient data to know whether they have any role in treatment of COVID-19; thus, we recommend that such agents only be used in the setting of a clinical trial.

    In particular, we suggest not using hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine in hospitalized patients; available data do not suggest a clear benefit and do suggest the potential for toxicity. We also suggest not using lopinavir-ritonavir in hospitalized patients.
    Last edited by Nephrology; 12-05-2020 at 10:46 AM.

  9. #6519
    Quote Originally Posted by YVK View Post
    I don't know who to believe anymore, and I am painfully short on time to read everything that everyone publishes.
    I don't quite understand the Covid disconnect comments like this seem to display. In other circumstances and other fields we don't fall back on ourselves on becoming our own top expert in the field to collate and analyze the information. Nor do we equivocate the opinion of low level professionals with those at the top of their field.

    In shooting advice, if super squad level USPSA shooters reach a consensus their collective opinion trumps that of a few A and B class shooters at a local club (i.e. the quacks pushing HCQ).

    If my GP refers me to a cardiologist who finds that the GP was incorrect, I believe the cardiologist on matters of heart health. I take the opinion of a top level Mayo clinic cardiologist over that of the middle of the pack suburban cardiologist. The hierarchy of expertise is not infallible but exists for a reason.

    Yet with Covid somehow, everyone gives free reign to believing random MD's who don't specialize in infectious disease over top specialists in the field.

    There really is no "I don't know who to believe" here. There is a CLEAR consensus among top specialists in the field based on the current available information. Best practice for patients is to follow their advice.

    Just because a top cardiologist makes a mistake and loses a patient, it doesn't mean I want a radiologist performing my open heart surgery because the top guy was wrong once last year.

    Just like in shooting, if you follow the consensus advice of the people at the top, you are most likely to have the best outcome even though the field is still developing and learning.

    I really wish every lay person didn't decide they should be their own expert to verify CDC guidelines personally before following them. During Covid times I am constantly reminded of the cliche "the man who believes in nothing falls for everything."
    Last edited by NoTacTravis; 12-05-2020 at 10:28 AM.

  10. #6520
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Erie County, NY
    The belief in HCQ is not driven by evidence of efficacy as that is clearly not there from the legit sources reported. It is more a belief in the main political proponents of the treatment and the inability to look at their claims rationally. Such would challenge a belief structure and most believers won't do that. The need to believe and show loyalty overrides a cognitive evaluation.

    Pretty standard psychology - from my lane.

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •