Coronavirus thread

[RoyGBiv]

Is liquid nitrogen too cold, for the vaccine? Cattle breeders sorted-out this portable cold storage thing several decades ago.

Liquid N2 is plenty cold enough. If it's too cold, that should be easy to fix mechanically.

I'm more interested in who will be doing the injections and what training will be necessary for them to handle the vaccine in such a way as to not destroy it. I can see where LN2 refrigerators could be placed and serviced, but, I'd be surprised if my local pharmacist would know how to handle the vaccine without specialized training.

How many times can vials of vaccine be exposed to an open fridge door, for example.? How much time does the vaccine remain viable between removing it from the fridge and injecting it? Injecting a liquid into your arm or buttcheek at -100F might cause it's own problems.... What injection temperature is safe but still leaves the vaccine effective? How do you mass-educate care providers?

I'm sure it's all solvable.

[Zincwarrior]

I don't put a lot of stock in polls but every one I've seen shows under 60% of people are willing to get a vaccine. I've seen as low as 50%. It varies greatly by political affiliation and I'm sure geography. I know I've yet to talk to anyone here who would be willing to get it.

And who says Darwin is dead? Did we just discover a method of forced mental evolution?

[peterb]

I don't put a lot of stock in polls but every one I've seen shows under 60% of people are willing to get a vaccine. I've seen as low as 50%. It varies greatly by political affiliation and I'm sure geography. I know I've yet to talk to anyone here who would be willing to get it.

Heck, I’d be an early adopter. If the nanobots in the vaccine turn me into a 5G cell antenna I won’t lose connection on my long bike rides. ;-)

[Bio]

Liquid N2 is plenty cold enough. If it's too cold, that should be easy to fix mechanically.

I'm more interested in who will be doing the injections and what training will be necessary for them to handle the vaccine in such a way as to not destroy it. I can see where LN2 refrigerators could be placed and serviced, but, I'd be surprised if my local pharmacist would know how to handle the vaccine without specialized training.

How many times can vials of vaccine be exposed to an open fridge door, for example.? How much time does the vaccine remain viable between removing it from the fridge and injecting it? Injecting a liquid into your arm or buttcheek at -100F might cause it's own problems.... What injection temperature is safe but still leaves the vaccine effective? How do you mass-educate care providers?

I'm sure it's all solvable.

I'd bet money that the vaccines go into a normal freezer for a few hours before usage, then get brought to room temp before injection. I'm pretty sure the cryo temps are long term storage conditions. It obviously doesn't immediately lose effectiveness at room temp, because your body is well above room temp, and it does take some time to distribute and become active in your body.

[Nephrology]

I'd bet money that the vaccines go into a normal freezer for a few hours before usage, then get brought to room temp before injection. I'm pretty sure the cryo temps are long term storage conditions. It obviously doesn't immediately lose effectiveness at room temp, because your body is well above room temp, and it does take some time to distribute and become active in your body.

IIRC the moderna vaccine can be stored at 2-8C (fridge temps) for up to 30 days.

and yes, the extreme cold temperature is just for longer term storage. mRNA is fairly fragile which is why this vaccine requires storage at much colder temps than others.

[scw2]

That lower reqs for the Moderna vaccine definitely is a positive. Reading some comments from a logistics guy the Pfizer vaccine requirement are going to make it hard to scale up distribution. I can't find the info now either, but dry ice relies on a just in time supply chain so makes it hard to scale up as well. He also mentioned that he's aware of at least several major reefer carriers refusing to transport vaccines due to fear of liability and very tight delivery schedules. I assume he meant Pfizer and not other vaccines with less stringent temperature requirements.

For this year, he projected from normal spoilage rate of vaccines in transportation range from 5-20%. For Pfizer's vaccine requiring lower temps, he argued we'd likely see the higher end of that range. If there are 50M doses by year end, that brings doses down to 40M, and 2x per person means 20M people. Factoring in 90-95% effectiveness means 18-19M effectively immunized.

[Wondering Beard]

And who says Darwin is dead? Did we just discover a method of forced mental evolution?

That's a little easy.

I'm a bit reluctant to take the vaccine. Not because of any conspiracy or whatever it is each side is touting as the reason, but simply because I am somewhat imuno-compromised and whenever I take the regular flu vaccine I get all the symptoms of the flu for a day or so after and that feels terrible. I'll admit I don't know a whole lot about vaccines but the last thing I need I to feel at least as if I'm sick with covid. I'm not going to be first in line and want to hear a whole lot more about the vaccine success rate, side effect etc.. before I would take one.

[Wondering Beard]

Anti-COVID-19 nasal spray 'ready for use in humans'

"A nasal spray that can provide effective protection against the COVID-19 virus has been developed by researchers at the University of Birmingham, using materials already cleared for use in humans."


Color me skeptical, but I like having hope.

[Crow Hunter]

I don't put a lot of stock in polls but every one I've seen shows under 60% of people are willing to get a vaccine. I've seen as low as 50%. It varies greatly by political affiliation and I'm sure geography. I know I've yet to talk to anyone here who would be willing to get it.

My wife told me last night that she would NOT take the vaccine.

Her reasoning is that she has already had it and she doesn't trust that there weren't shortcuts taken to produce the vaccine.

For reference both of us get flu-shots every year and when we lived in Clarksville she was part of a local pandemic response team. I don't remember what exactly, I just know that she had to go for exercises every so often and because she would be considered a first responder/critical support she and I were both first in line for any vaccines, should they be required.

So she definitely isn't an anti-vaxxer but she is not willing to take the vaccine for this.

I haven't decided myself. If my anti-body test next week shows that I have had it, I probably won't get it either, since I will be Matt Damon.

[Dr_Thanatos]

That's a little easy.

I'm a bit reluctant to take the vaccine. Not because of any conspiracy or whatever it is each side is touting as the reason, but simply because I am somewhat imuno-compromised and whenever I take the regular flu vaccine I get all the symptoms of the flu for a day or so after and that feels terrible. I'll admit I don't know a whole lot about vaccines but the last thing I need I to feel at least as if I'm sick with covid. I'm not going to be first in line and want to hear a whole lot more about the vaccine success rate, side effect etc.. before I would take one.

Just as a heads up, when you feel ill after a vaccine, that is (usually) not because you are actually getting the disease. What you are feeling is your immune system ramping up, which incidentally is the same feeling you have when you get sick. Humans are great at pattern recognition, we stink at interpreting the patterns correctly. (I say usually, because in very specific circumstances, a live attenuated vaccine is given, which does have the possibility of disease transmission.) As always, I am not your doctor, check with them not me.

My wife told me last night that she would NOT take the vaccine.

Her reasoning is that she has already had it and she doesn't trust that there weren't shortcuts taken to produce the vaccine.

For reference both of us get flu-shots every year and when we lived in Clarksville she was part of a local pandemic response team. I don't remember what exactly, I just know that she had to go for exercises every so often and because she would be considered a first responder/critical support she and I were both first in line for any vaccines, should they be required.

So she definitely isn't an anti-vaxxer but she is not willing to take the vaccine for this.

I haven't decided myself. If my anti-body test next week shows that I have had it, I probably won't get it either, since I will be Matt Damon.

Also as a heads up, antibodies from actually getting the illness last as little as 3 months. Re-infection is a real thing, and sometimes the second time is significantly worse or fatal. So, do not rely on the fact that you had the virus to protect you from getting it again.

For the record, I have the same concerns that there has not been significant long term testing on these particular vaccines. However, the bio-pharmacy of making vaccines has become so routine, that I have very few doubts that anyone is going off the reservation and re-inventing the wheel. They didn't have time. The shortcuts for the pharmaceutical companies are to do the same thing they do with every vaccine, rather than try a bunch of new processes that aren't tested.

I will be taking the vaccine when it becomes available.