Coronavirus thread

[peterb]

https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/04/02/pa...hina-transport

The Patriots are stepping up during the coronavirus outbreak by using their team plane to transport 1.2 million N95 masks from China to the United States, according to The Wall Street Journal's Andrew Beaton.

New England is using its plane to transport the masks after conversations with Massachusetts Gov. Charlie Baker. Patriots owner Robert Kraft and his family reportedly paid $2 million to transport the 1.2 million masks, with another 500,000 masks set to be delivered later, per Beaton.

[Earlymonk]

There is a thread for this stuff.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....olitics-Thread

Got it. Thanks.

[0ddl0t]

One is done to you, the other is self-inflicted. Same reason there's not a huge public uprising about overdose deaths. Those without a personal stake figure the person did it to themselves/had it coming. If you drink yourself to death, meh, that's on you. If you get killed by a drunk driver, there'll be a go fund me, etc. Die from lung cancer and if you weren't a smoker, it'll be prominent in the discussion of your death, distancing you from fault in your own demise. Plenty of "fuck cancer" posts, very few to no "fuck suicide" posts. All have that common theme, done to you by an outside force vs internal cause/at fault.

So which is someone infecting you with a potentially fatal disease when it's preventable? Seems like "done to you" to me.

Sure, which is why I also brought up deaths from private transportation. How many pedestrians, passengers, and innocent drivers die because America loves the individual freedom of driving over safer forms of mass transit?

Someone who behaves recklessly knowing (or suspecting) they are infected with cv19 is comparable to a drunk driver. Someone who is asymptomatic and spreads the virus while behaving normally is more comparable to a traffic accident.

Remember that this massive intrusion, by itself, does not save lives - it only spreads out cases over time (requiring a longer and longer quarantine). It can only save lives if we're able to use that time to increase capacity & offer better treatment than we otherwise would. But for all this talk about getting more ventilators, the stats I've read here say 50% of those on ventilators die anyway (and there is some indication that the 50% who do survive don't fully recover). Well what about a vaccine, you say? We have vaccines now, they just haven't been approved by the FDA yet which means we're surrendering all this freedom for the sake of red tape.

[Nephrology]

We have vaccines now, they just haven't been approved by the FDA yet which means we're surrendering all this freedom for the sake of red tape.

This is false. We have a vaccine, yes, but we have no idea if it works at all. "Red tape" is not the problem.

[0ddl0t]

This is false.

https://nypost.com/2020/03/16/first-...gin-in-the-us/

[Nephrology]

https://nypost.com/2020/03/16/first-...gin-in-the-us/

See amended post. We do not have any idea if it works. "Red tape" is not the reason it is not being used in the clinic.

[0ddl0t]

See amended post. We do not have any idea it works. "Red tape" is not the reason it is not being used in the clinic.

We know it has at least some effectiveness, but we don't know exactly how well it works and whether it has any side effects.

A society valuing individual freedom would allow consumers to make the risk/reward choice for themselves. A society valuing order & security would rather put 320 million Americans on house arrest while they study the matter for 6+ months.

[Nephrology]

We know it has at least some effectiveness

No, we don't.

[BehindBlueI's]

Sure, which is why I also brought up deaths from private transportation. How many pedestrians, passengers, and innocent drivers die because America loves the individual freedom of driving over safer forms of mass transit?

Someone who behaves recklessly knowing (or suspecting) they are infected with cv19 is comparable to a drunk driver. Someone who is asymptomatic and spreads the virus while behaving normally is more comparable to a traffic accident.

Remember that this massive intrusion, by itself, does not save lives - it only spreads out cases over time (requiring a longer and longer quarantine). It can only save lives if we're able to use that time to increase capacity & offer better treatment than we otherwise would. But for all this talk about getting more ventilators, the stats I've read here say 50% of those on ventilators die anyway (and there is some indication that the 50% who do survive don't fully recover). Well what about a vaccine, you say? We have vaccines now, they just haven't been approved by the FDA yet which means we're surrendering all this freedom for the sake of red tape.

There's certainly a cultural aversion to mass transit, but let's not pretend that we don't take large measures to reduce traffic fatalities. How many children were killed by being backed over? Very, very few. I don't remember the exact number off the top of my head but I'm pretty sure it was single digits a year. Yet, mandatory backup cameras (and yes, children being backed over wasn't the only reason). Take a look at a 1950's vehicle and a 2020 vehicle and it's readily apparent that much of what we just assume is "part of a car" was mandated safety equipment. Hell, you didn't use to have to have a rear view mirror, turn signals, etc. let alone multiple airbags, a backup camera, seat belts, head rests, etc. How much does all that add to the cost of private transportation? Why?

The analogy is a good one, just perhaps not to the point you make if you zoom out from just "mass transit vs private auto ownership" and understand that the infrastructure in this country doesn't really lend itself to lack of private auto ownership outside of very few major metropolitan areas.

[critter]

We know it has at least some effectiveness, but we don't know exactly how well it works and whether it has any side effects.

A society valuing individual freedom would allow consumers to make the risk/reward choice for themselves. A society valuing order & security would rather put 320 million Americans on house arrest while they study the matter for 6+ months.

Don't these studies use volunteers? I guess some of them would get placebo, but there is freedom to guinea pig up.

"This vaccine may destroy your testicles and lead to daily anal seepage..." Not sure I'd sign up for that...