Coronavirus thread

[bravo7]

Yeah, the US Surgeon General lacks a certain smoothness in the delivery of his B.S. and is as transparent as glass in that regard. Translation: "Don't buy any more masks or PPEs 'cause they're actually quite effective and we want them."

There's a reason that medical personnel wear masks and we all know why; they mitigate the transmission of infectious viruses/bacteria.

Given that the US government's stated goal is to ''flatten the curve'' by mitigating transmission of infectious agents—one would think that he'd be encouraging EVERYONE to ''mask up'' and right now.

I don't know what the US Surgeon General thinks of ''we, the people'', but his language hints strongly at what that might be.

Simply “masking up” doesn’t accomplish much if it’s not the right mask.

[Joe in PNG]

I suspect that masking up will do more harm than good if you don't do it right.

There's also the fact that people are in panicy hoarder mode right now. Tell people they need to wear a mask, and you will get closely packed crowds of sheep out trying to buy them.

[peterb]

The relative importance of a mask is very different in the healthcare setting, where you are by definition going to be exposed directly to large amounts of virus all day, every day, vs. out in the world where the risk of exposure is relatively much lower and can be mitigated in other ways (physical distancing etc).

Healthcare providers especially need to wear surgical/procedural masks because they are extremely likely to be infected and thus very likely to give the virus to other patients in the hospital. Given that the only non-COVID patients in the hospital right now are very sick, it is extremely important that healthcare providers not spread the virus to them.

As an important reminder, surgical masks do a poor job of protecting the user from aerosol droplets carrying the virus. They do, however, do a good job of keeping your own bugs from getting into the air around you. If you think you may be sick, please wear one. If you don't, know that it is unlikely to confer you much protection from airborne droplets. It won't meaningfully prevent you from giving it to yourself via a contaminated surface, either.

N95s will filter the air you breathe but are hard to wear for extended periods of time and somewhat wasted if you make a reasonable effort to keep yourself far from other people. If you have to be around a lot of other people and have N95s on hand, they're not an unreasonable precaution. Healthcare workers need these very badly because they are constantly exposed to the virus. If you have a supply for yourself, use them judiciously.

Thank you. That's much more helpful than the simple binary responses I've seen elsewhere.

And it's a good reminder that the primary function of surgical/sterile garb and procedures is to protect the patient, not the people wearing it.

[Stephanie B]

I hate to say it, but I'm pretty sure the Navy will fuck this up.

Bet heavily on it. The Pentagon hasn't been sarcastically referred to as "Ft. Fumble" for decades for no reason.

[Stephanie B]

There's also the fact that people are in panicy hoarder mode right now. Tell people they need to wear a mask, and you will get closely packed crowds of sheep out trying to buy them.

"Free mask with every package of TP (or box of 9mm)." I'm astonished that Cheaper Than Dirt isn't selling N95 masks for $20 apiece.

[5pins]

"Free mask with every package of TP (or box of 9mm)." I'm astonished that Cheaper Than Dirt isn't selling N95 masks for $20 apiece.

Don't give them any ideas.

[LittleLebowski]

Bet heavily on it. The Pentagon hasn't been sarcastically referred to as "Ft. Fumble" for decades for no reason.

Buddy is a flight instructor at Pensacola and is horrified that he’s still going to work and that all of his flight students are free roaming on liberty.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I suspect that masking up will do more harm than good if you don't do it right.

There's also the fact that people are in panicy hoarder mode right now. Tell people they need to wear a mask, and you will get closely packed crowds of sheep out trying to buy them.

This may well be true, but as soon as we get to the point of "We can't really tell everyone the truth about this because they'll panic and do stupid things" then everyone who's not part of the panicky-stupid group needs to filter all of the information they're getting through a lens of "we are being deliberately mislead in a manner that may be harmful to us".

As someone who isn't really part of the panicky-stupid segment, I just have to remember that the WHO is not acting in MY best interest, they are acting in what they perceive to be the sum total of best interests according to the information they have, applied to the goals they wish to acheive.

My personal best interests may be served by completely ignoring their recommendations. That is what is so frustrating: this is exactly the commuter tank problem all over again. Yes, if we all drove smart cars, average accident survivability would probably improve. But if I personally want to maximize my survivability, I should drive an M1 Abrams, particularly if everyone else is driving smart cars. I could probably get in a hundred consecutive accidents without having so much as a seatbelt bruise.

That's all well and good, but if the WHO then says "no, you shouldn't drive a tank because that actually won't improve your chances" then I just have to face the reality that they are comfortable acting directly against my best interests, and any information I get from them may specifically reduce my chances of survival if I take it seriously.

This is exactly how I perceive public health advice and while some people hate this critique, the bottom line to me is that I am not attempting to save everyone in the world equally. I don't care that we might(!) all have our average odds improve if we all did what we were told. My goal is to beat the average and I think that I am best served by trying to protect myself on a higher level than most people. I would hope this attitude is almost universal here - I mean I would guess we've all heard the "but if nobody was armed, everybody would be safer" stuff and we've pretty much all looked at that and rejected it. I don't care that if there were no guns anywhere, nobody could shoot themselves or ND into a neighbour's toddler; I care about what I myself do with guns, and I use them to protect ME.

Clearly masks work; putting them on, for those of you without beards at least, is hardly rocket science. Other people may say "your risk profile is low enough that you don't need that." That's fine, I don't care how they assess my risk profile. They may know nothing about me and simply be applying an across the board average and, in effect, just blurting nonsense, since nobody knows where I fall relative to the average.

As it happens, I have masks anyway, for working on fibreglass. And so far I haven't really felt the need to make use of them, except when I was moving a bunch of hay, because I'm allergic.

But whatever we might want the average person to do, let's just remember that there is absolutely no reason that anyone should conclude that individually, we'll benefit from taking that same advice. That's plainly wrong.

[Joe in PNG]

"Free mask with every package of TP (or box of 9mm)." I'm astonished that Cheaper Than Dirt isn't selling N95 masks for $20 apiece.

It's Cheaper than Dirt during a crisis. They sell them of the low price of $120 each.

[blues]

This may well be true, but as soon as we get to the point of "We can't really tell everyone the truth about this because they'll panic and do stupid things" then everyone who's not part of the panicky-stupid group needs to filter all of the information they're getting through a lens of "we are being deliberately mislead in a manner that may be harmful to us".

As someone who isn't really part of the panicky-stupid segment, I just have to remember that the WHO is not acting in MY best interest, they are acting in what they perceive to be the sum total of best interests according to the information they have, applied to the goals they wish to acheive.

My personal best interests may be served by completely ignoring their recommendations. That is what is so frustrating: this is exactly the commuter tank problem all over again. Yes, if we all drove smart cars, average accident survivability would probably improve. But if I personally want to maximize my survivability, I should drive an M1 Abrams, particularly if everyone else is driving smart cars. I could probably get in a hundred consecutive accidents without having so much as a seatbelt bruise.

That's all well and good, but if the WHO then says "no, you shouldn't drive a tank because that actually won't improve your chances" then I just have to face the reality that they are comfortable acting directly against my best interests, and any information I get from them may specifically reduce my chances of survival if I take it seriously.

This is exactly how I perceive public health advice and while some people hate this critique, the bottom line to me is that I am not attempting to save everyone in the world equally. I don't care that we might(!) all have our average odds improve if we all did what we were told. My goal is to beat the average and I think that I am best served by trying to protect myself on a higher level than most people. I would hope this attitude is almost universal here - I mean I would guess we've all heard the "but if nobody was armed, everybody would be safer" stuff and we've pretty much all looked at that and rejected it. I don't care that if there were no guns anywhere, nobody could shoot themselves or ND into a neighbour's toddler; I care about what I myself do with guns, and I use them to protect ME.

Clearly masks work; putting them on, for those of you without beards at least, is hardly rocket science. Other people may say "your risk profile is low enough that you don't need that." That's fine, I don't care how they assess my risk profile. They may know nothing about me and simply be applying an across the board average and, in effect, just blurting nonsense, since nobody knows where I fall relative to the average.

As it happens, I have masks anyway, for working on fibreglass. And so far I haven't really felt the need to make use of them, except when I was moving a bunch of hay, because I'm allergic.

But whatever we might want the average person to do, let's just remember that there is absolutely no reason that anyone should conclude that individually, we'll benefit from taking that same advice. That's plainly wrong.

Quoted for getting it absolutely correct. The current level of bullshit and doublespeak is unfathomable as well as unbelievable (literally).