Coronavirus thread

[Borderland]

Yup. As long as Americans expect to live a 1st world lifestyle, transactional and semi-transactional work will be offshored to 3rd world nations.

Chris

I guess I'm too old to embrace transformational jobs. I never realized it but I was constantly being ask to help people "transform" their work experience. I had a skill set from having a college degree, continued education and 20 plus years of on the job experience which meant there were only a few people in our organization who could do that particular job. The theory of transformational work is very foreign to me as it was always a transactional relationship until our highly trained and highly skilled human resources dept. decided that transformational work was a thing. For about the last 10 years that I worked I was a trainer/worker but my workload was never reduced. It was increased because I was saddled with working with people who were never hired to do that job (not qualified) but were transforming. Moving around in the organization because you didn't care for the job you were hired to do became the norm for younger employees. My complaint was that I was being asked to train people and at the same time get x amount of work done. Didn't really work that well because it was a very technical job that required some formal training.

So now we have a workforce that expects transformational job opportunities. Private companies can't really afford that so they just move those transactional jobs offshore. With China doing a good part of that work I can see how we are heading for the mother of all recessions.

[mtnbkr]

I guess I'm too old to embrace transformational jobs. I never realized it but I was constantly being ask to help people "transform" their work experience. I had a skill set from having a college degree, continued education and 20 plus years of on the job experience which meant there were only a few people in our organization who could do that particular job. The theory of transformational work is very foreign to me as it was always a transactional relationship until our highly trained and highly skilled human resources dept. decided that transformational work was a thing. For about the last 10 years that I worked I was a trainer/worker but my workload was never reduced. It was increased because I was saddled with working with people who were never hired to do that job (not qualified) but were transforming. Moving around in the organization because you didn't care for the job you were hired to do became the norm for younger employees. My complaint was that I was being asked to train people and at the same time get x amount of work done. Didn't really work that well because it was a very technical job that required some formal training.

So now we have a workforce that expects transformational job opportunities. Private companies can't really afford that so they just move those transactional jobs offshore. With China doing a good part of that work I can't see how we aren't heading for the mother of all recessions.

You're talking about something else.

Transactional-Low or medium skill level, step-by-step work (ie put tab A into slot B, repeat or when Alarm A goes off, refer to procedure B). In the IT/Security world, bulk quantity network device management and L1/L2 SOC work is typically considered transactional and fit for offshoring.

Transformational-Not normally applied to individuals, but a description of taking an organization from one operational or technology paradigm to another.

Chris

[TAZ]

Yup. As long as Americans expect to live a 1st world lifestyle, transactional and semi-transactional work will be offshored to 3rd world nations.

Chris

Also need to add in a huge level or ignorance to that mix. The USA led a first world lifestyle back in the days when we made stuff as well and folks around the world wanted American stuff.

Americans are woefully ignorant of the consequences of offshoring. Your average idiot can’t connect the dots if taxes being used to “feed the poor” while jobs are being moved offshore that could help the poor feed themselves. Too stupid to make the connections.

[mtnbkr]

Also need to add in a huge level or ignorance to that mix. The USA led a first world lifestyle back in the days when we made stuff as well and folks around the world wanted American stuff.

Americans are woefully ignorant of the consequences of offshoring. Your average idiot can’t connect the dots if taxes being used to “feed the poor” while jobs are being moved offshore that could help the poor feed themselves. Too stupid to make the connections.

Labor is more expensive today. I do service design and governance for IT security opportunities. In my own company I can get 6 engineers in India for 1 in the US (the US is by far the most expensive labor market for IT). Even if those engineers are 1/3 as productive as their US counterpart, I'm ahead price-wise. In straightforward transactional work, they're just as good as their US counterparts. Our customers frequently insist the work be offshored for cost savings. Our competitors do it. The end result is we either do it or be noncompetitive price-wise. I've tried to put work into the US when I *know* the US team is better at a particular task, but the price is so much higher, it's a losing argument. At least in IT, the key is having skills not found overseas or working in markets that won't allow or tolerate offshoring (govt, and increasingly pharma).

Chris

[Borderland]

Also need to add in a huge level or ignorance to that mix. The USA led a first world lifestyle back in the days when we made stuff as well and folks around the world wanted American stuff.

Americans are woefully ignorant of the consequences of offshoring. Your average idiot can’t connect the dots if taxes being used to “feed the poor” while jobs are being moved offshore that could help the poor feed themselves. Too stupid to make the connections.

I don't think US corporations care a lot about feeding the poor. I think their main objective is keeping the shareholders interested and generating a profit. If a widget can be produced in another country for half of the cost of being produced in the US, they're going to produce it in another country. They may even set up a plant in another country, maintain and operate it, and still produce the widget for a lot less than they can produce it in the US. A good example of that is a Chevy Silverado that has 40% of its parts built in other countries.

So a tariff on auto parts is the only way that can be controlled, but the cost of that vehicle is going to get very expensive. Because of Trump's tariffs some manufacturing has returned to the US but not enough to matter. US auto manufacturers are being beat at their own game by savvy foreign companies who build plants in RTW states and build a large percentage of their parts here. If tariffs are increased on parts foreign companies benefit more than US companies because typically foreign companies already build more of their parts here.

The only way for tariffs to work is for the gov't to dole out those tariff dollars (corporate welfare) to the industries that are hurt by them. That would be farmers and anybody else who no longer can survive in a limited market.

[TAZ]

I can’t comment on the IT landscape as I don’t work in it. I do work hard goods and have been involved in numerous attempts (some successful, sone not so much) at insourcing aka bringing mfg back CONUS. The successful attempts took into consideration cost of ownership while the unsuccessful ones were dominated my short term focus on up from cost. I work for a company that has a very generous warranty stance, especially with large accounts. I’ve replaced product that was a decade in the dirt and past it’s warranty period simply cause the customer is always right and they spent far more on product than a few out of left field replacements. For those cases the quality and lack rework dominated. Cheap chicom crap didn’t cut it and long lead times/high inventory volumes for that same crap didn’t make sense.

Insourcing doesn’t make sense everywhere and the issue that we have allowed to dominate the landscape over decades of short sighted idiotic ideas won’t be undone if a few years. Some may never be undone. But where it’s feasible it should be considered a nations security issue.

You may be buying cheap chicom crap at Walmart or Apple and thinking it’s all cool cause that’s how you can afford it, but you’re still paying a price for the free shut army, the eventual retirees who can’t afford to feed themselves cause service industry don’t got a 401k plan or the minimum wage dufus who has no place to go and improve his outlook.

It’s kind of close to a zero sum game. Have more $$ in your wallet to buy more expensive stuff or buy cheap stuff and pay for the FSA or unemployed, underemployed... You’re going to pay somehow.

[randyho]

Origin Maine: These guys inspire me and I will pay more for their products.

[LittleLebowski]

Cases confirmed in Iran.

From my infectious diseases doctor brother in law:

Not good. This probably reflects pandemic given what's happening in Japan, S Korea and now, Iran

https://apnews.com/2b8f437c6a5cd6c556e5e97f7be8254a

[farscott]

The near doubling of cases in South Korea in a matter of days and the cluster of cases in Italy suggest the virus is spreading. I expect it is beyond containment now.

One of our contract manufacturers in Shenzhen is still not producing/manufacturing. It has been four weeks since the Lunar New Year closure. There is no firm date for production to resume.

[TGS]

I wonder if revenue for games like Dying Light 2 or Tom Clancy's The Division are surging right now.