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Thread: Reloads with little guns (G43)

  1. #21
    Depressed DINK TGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    You think the average LEO practices between quals ?

    Seriously - that shit isn’t hard - they are fucked up far beyond “out of practice” if they can’t meet that standard with a 9mm.
    So, chest thumping aside, there's a bit of a difference here between us/this situation and the target population in question to the FBI which probably isn't evident to anyone who isn't familiar with our job and that "practices between quals" for the FBI may mean a few months, whereas for us it could literally be 4-6 years.

    There's a lot to unpack there and it isn't a 5 minute conversation, but the tl;dr is that if you change the standard (for the better) but don't provide any mechanism of retraining to maintain that standard compared to the standard they've been held to for however many years, then it's entirely foreseeable that this would happen to a subset of your manpower.

    If anyone wants any further thread drift on the topic, please ask a mod to split it off to a new thread.
    Last edited by TGS; 01-20-2020 at 12:00 AM.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

  2. #22
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    Feb 2012
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    Madison, Wisconsin

    time limits

    I have always believed in setting time limits that are a little on the generous side because I'm training people who shoot (normally) at in-service about four times a year and probably don't practice between training sessions.

    And I want uniform standards that work if you're shooting that CoF on the indoor range, on the outdoor range in good weather, or outside wearing rain gear or cold weather gear.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by miller_man View Post
    Anyone have any good tips or techniques for doing reloads with little guns, like a G43?

    Been working a little bit trying to improve my reload times - like getting below 3-4 seconds for a reload. It's pretty infuriating.

    My first problem was my weak hand grip riding the slide lock lever and not allowing the slide to lock back - fixed that pretty easily with grip adjustment.

    Now my real struggle is getting the mag to drop when pressing the mag button.

    The bottom of my strong hand interferes with letting the mag drop. I've been experimenting with taking most of my strong hand off the grip when pressing the button but not getting good results still - plus rotating my hand causes my index finger to move over the other side of the mag release button interfering with the button pressing enough to release the mag.

    I've ran them ripping the mag out of the mag well and while it works, it is time consuming - add that to grabbing the little mag from mag well, grabbing little mag from belt and hitting the little mag well with new mag - my time from shot to shot is running over 3+ secs. Am I just spoiled by ~1.3 reloads from my full size guns?

    Would love any input from the hive.
    Have you tried reloading to a longer magazine? My reload mag for my 43 is a factory mag with a Ghost +2 extension, which I’ve vetted the hell out of (with carry ammo to boot, not cheap). Makes reloading quicker and more positive.

  4. #24
    Member miller_man's Avatar
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    Jan 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    Have you tried reloading to a longer magazine? My reload mag for my 43 is a factory mag with a Ghost +2 extension, which I’ve vetted the hell out of (with carry ammo to boot, not cheap). Makes reloading quicker and more positive.
    Yes, I was using a Vickers tac +2 for reload. Read a thread posted here just a months or two ago about the +1’s, 2, 3’s proving unreliable - I went back to stock with pinky extension.

    Reality for me is - grabbing mag off belt and inserting are not too hard to do and get consistency- really just not try and do it “fast” and it goes decent.

    The dropping the mag is my biggest hurdle. Gonna work on “ripping it out” techniques.
    The stupidity of some people never ceases to amaze me.

    Humbly improving with CZ's.

  5. #25
    Rip it out.

    Right before you slam it in, say STOP, and stop for a split second and the mag will fall right in.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by miller_man View Post
    Yes, I was using a Vickers tac +2 for reload. Read a thread posted here just a months or two ago about the +1’s, 2, 3’s proving unreliable - I went back to stock with pinky extension.

    Reality for me is - grabbing mag off belt and inserting are not too hard to do and get consistency- really just not try and do it “fast” and it goes decent.

    The dropping the mag is my biggest hurdle. Gonna work on “ripping it out” techniques.
    What I like about the Ghost is it isn’t a hollowed out base pad, it’s a magazine extension. In fact, it utilizes the factory base pad. It’s the closet thing to a longer mag, without actually having a longer mag.

  7. #27
    Now that yesterday's 18 hour unscheduled overtime bender is long over and I'm clear of work today, here's an expansion of what I started writing earlier:

    (Context: I am a right-handed shooter. Most of you are a lot larger than I am.)

    I used to strip every mag out of every pistol, and actuate the left-side slide release with my left thumb; this was on account of there being ~1" of travel required from my right thumb from where it rests when I have my firing grip upon my work gun. I went away from that because it was symptomatic of two different issues (deficient access technique for the shooting-hand thumb, relative orientation of the weapon at the moment of the magazine release's actuation) that needed addressing, it wasn't congruent with the magazine exchange methodology I migrated to, and it was hard on both magazines and any feet nearby that weren't attached to me.

    (In addendum to the earlier statement about maintaining some sort of register with the trigger finger, while my work gun isn't anywhere close to a pocket pistol, I don't have nearly enough finger left to reach the slide after rolling the gun within my shooting hand, so I consistently\deliberately press it against the grip-slab just aft of the magazine release so that it has a definitive home AND it provides a little bit more desirable resistance as I press upon the magazine release. I wasn't being clear about differentiating reloading from slide-lock or performing an exchange, either.)

    Methodology might resemble:

    (Starting with a support hand grip that has the tip of the thumb advanced further forward than the trigger finger at full extension and rest against the frame presuming the absence of safety issues, and sufficient triggerfinger upon the trigger to operate the trigger from front to rear in a singular stroke when firing one-handed...)

    (Tactile cue: mushy trigger without resistance or reset) the slide locks to the rear;

    ...the trigger finger departs the triggerguard, extending straight and onto the frame, as the shooter reduces the rearwards press of the descending fingers against the frontstrap;

    ...the index finger of the support hand presses flat against the lower edge of the trigger guard (that is also part of my two-handed shooting grip) as the support hand draws rearwards towards center-chest, drawing the palm of the support hand away from the side of the grip and continuing the motion until the shooting-hand's thumb presses fully but not actively against the magazine release;

    ...the support hand departs the weapon en route to the replacement magazine, while the shooting hand vices back down upon the weapon with a pinch+hold movement between the descending finger's final joints towards the thumb's final joint; with the trigger finger's position determined by the three-fold needs of being off-trigger and least-able to accidentally able to go on-trigger as the hand clenches simultaneous to the magazine release's actuation, being clear of obstruction to the magazine release's operation (e.g. some magazine releases portrude out the far side of the frame when pressed), and being supportive to the reloading process;

    (I don't teach to turn the gun right into the magazine release being pressed as it can readily lead to overturning the muzzle one way as the shooting-hand thumb unintentionally turns into a pivot point. The measure of time in setting the altered reloading grip is infinitesmal, and I'd rather consider them discrete steps and finely pared, however fine that paring should be.)

    ...(more or less at the same time, though I hold no special value to what passes what in space and at the same time) the support hand accesses and reorients the replacement magazine, the shooting-hand's thumb presses and holds the magazine release until the original magazine has departed;

    ...the shooting hand thumb repositions appropriate to the use\disuse of the release lever and in preparation to restore the two-handed shooting grip, the tip of the support hand's index finger attempts to tap the backwall of the magazine well if a doublestack OR the support hand's flagged thumb attempts to tap the far sidewall of the magazine well if a singlestack, driving from the support-side elbow through the palm until the magazine fully seats;

    ...the support-hand's index finger and thumb then pinching the leading edge of the baseplate to PULL downwards to verify seating (PUSHing upwards if the magazine begins sliding free), after which the release lever is actuated by the appropriate thumb OR the shooting hand turns over and the shooter pinch-racks the slide to release with the thumb and forefinger;

    ...after which the edge of the support-hand's index-finger returns to the intersection of grip and trigger-guard, allowing the remainder of the support hand to pivot around said index-finger as the thumb reaches forward to turn the gun within the shooting hand until the index finger finds the on-frame tactile reference point appropriate for its requirements and the shooting grip finishes its rebuild.

    It's a lot to write, and a lot less to do. I try to be mindful of left vs right handed shooters, offer the minimum of options that covers the majority of my folks down to those my size and slighter, and those that have curiously placed or dimunitive slide-release levers.
    Last edited by runcible; 01-20-2020 at 08:46 PM.
    Jules
    Runcible Works

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