.44 Magnum vs. .45 Colt Magnumized

[Lester Polfus]

Read CJ Box and you're going to want a S&W .500

It's actually a .500 Wyoming express, paired with a .454, when Nate wants to use something smaller.

Googled the author and I was suprised we haven't seen a TV adaptation of his works. "Red Dragon" made Charter Arms .44s seem like a good idea for a second, so who knows?

When the X-frames first came out, I got to fondle one and I was surprised by the nice balance. If one came along at a good price in .460 Smith, I would be psyched. A pistol with TWO power levels I will almost never use. 😸

A Joe Pickett Tv/Film project has been in development hell for quite a few years now.

[Baldanders]

I blame Target World in Cincinnati for having plenty of Model 28s for rent, and no SA guns. I also give them partial blame for my DA obsessions.

Actually, the fact that I inherited a 5" 625 (within months of posting on some forum at the time that I wanted that exactly that model) is mostly to blame.

Due to Alien Nation, I have lusted after a Freedom Arms .454.

Anyone feel like sending me a nice wad of cash so I can buy one, and do this addiction thing "right?" Or I could create a kickstarter. 😈😀.

I almost got a 1911 instead of the 625. I wonder if this thread would be "Grizzy LAR vs. .460 Rowland conversation" if that had been the case. The .460 Roland has always struck me as an "almost" solution. As in, it's almost a .44Mag or hot .45 Colt, but the inability to go with heavier bullet weights makes it almost something I'm interested in. I briefly considered getting my 625 re-chambered for it, but a new gun seemed more logical.

[okie john]

Just to make sure I'm reading you correctly, you mean loads that probably run about 100-200 fps over .45 Colt mainstream factory loads? (Or at least the listed velocities for those loads--I think most are loaded pretty tamely to avoid blowing up older guns)

Does that still basically mean "Ruger?" Not that I have a problem with that. But a .45 Colt Model 25 would go great with my .45 ACP example.

Here's a good reference for Tier II Loads: http://buffalobore.net/HandloaderDecJan2012.pdf Brian Pearce has written several other very good articles about handloading for the 45 Colt in various revolvers.

FWIW, I shot a cylinder full of this load https://www.grizzlycartridge.com/sho...p-265gr-wfngc/ through my New Model Blackhawk a few days ago. Based on the recoil, I'd say that the advertised velocity is spot on. Based on the smell, I'd say that the propellant is H110 or WW296. Based on the accuracy, I'd say that this load GTG if you need to shoot bear, hogs, or elk with a 45 Colt.


Okie John

[Baldanders]

Here's a good reference for Tier II Loads: http://buffalobore.net/HandloaderDecJan2012.pdf Brian Pearce has written several other very good articles about handloading for the 45 Colt in various revolvers.

FWIW, I shot a cylinder full of this load https://www.grizzlycartridge.com/sho...p-265gr-wfngc/ through my New Model Blackhawk a few days ago. Based on the recoil, I'd say that the advertised velocity is spot on. Based on the smell, I'd say that the propellant is H110 or WW296. Based on the accuracy, I'd say that this load GTG if you need to shoot bear, hogs, or elk with a 45 Colt.


Okie John

Good article! Thanks!

[MistWolf]

Just to make sure I'm reading you correctly, you mean loads that probably run about 100-200 fps over .45 Colt mainstream factory loads? (Or at least the listed velocities for those loads--I think most are loaded pretty tamely to avoid blowing up older guns)

Does that still basically mean "Ruger?" Not that I have a problem with that. But a .45 Colt Model 25 would go great with my .45 ACP example.

I suppose it does. However, you can take deer sized game humanely with a good hardcast 45 caliber bullet moving along at 900-950 fps without being too much for a modern Colt or Colt or Colt clone. A hardcast bullet with a large meplat gives a lot of penetration and while the wound track is narrow, the wide meplat does a lot of tissue damage along the way.

I did some some searching on current prices for .41s, and they really aren't bad, but I would say the ammo/bullet situation definitely puts it behind the .44 or .45 options for flexibility , although if I was just going for a pure deerslayer and nothing else, I might go that route.

Nothing wrong with a 41. It's only real down side is that it's the red-headed step child of magnum calibers. The 357 will do most of what the 41 will do and the 44 will do all that and a bit more.

Okie John sums up 45 colt performance quite well in his earlier post-

45 Colt revolvers and ammo are classed in four tiers:

Tier I = Colt SAA and clones, which top out at 14,000 psi. It’s easy to handload a 250-grain SWC or LFN to 1,000 fps, which will meet 99% of your needs. Factory ammo is another story—you might find something like that handload, or you might only find a load with a pointy 180-grain bullet at 600 fps that will barely stay on a pie plate at 25 yards. Test and make careful notes if you have to rely on factory ammo.

Tier II = S&W Model 25 and Ruger Flat Tops, which top out around 23,000 psi. This is a 250-grain jacketed bullet at 1,100 fps, a 280-grain cast bullet at 1,150 fps, or a 318-grain cast bullet at 1,070 fps. Brian Pearce has written excellent articles about handloading to this level in Handloader magazine, most notably in April, 2007. You’ll need those articles, though, because no factory loads this ammo and loading manuals don’t cover it.

Tier III = Ruger New Model Blackhawks (NOT Flat Tops or New Vaqueros), Redhawks, Freedom Arms 97, and similar guns. These top out around 32,000 psi. You can buy this ammo over the counter. It’s expensive and recoil is fierce, but they match the hottest 44 Magnum loads with slightly less pressure. Most sources of loading data call this “45 Colt +P” or “Ruger/TC only.” These loads can destroy a Tier I or Tier II revolver, so many—but not all—of them are intentionally built too long to fit into the cylinder of an SAA or clone.

Tier IV = custom five-shot guns with longer than standard cylinders, which top out around 50,000 psi. These are a handload-only proposition. I had a couple of these guns built by David Clements, and they’ll move a 325-grain bullet an honest 1,400 fps.

The 45 Colt has a lot of romance but most of its advantages are theoretical and only pan out if you handload to Tier III or IV levels. For your purposes, get a 44 Magnum. Factory loads range from around 1,000 fps to 1,400 fps. I like HSM’s 240-grain Cowboy Load, which does 1,150 fps from my 4” Model 29-2 and is accurate enough for deer out to 100 yards. American Eagle’s 240-grain JHP and JSP are equally accurate and do about 1,250 fps from the same gun. They're also relatively cheap and you can find them almost anywhere.

The Tier 2 loads will get a lot of work done with authority without without excessive recoil or tearing up a modern revolver.

[OlongJohnson]

Nothing wrong with a 41. It's only real down side is that it's the red-headed step child of magnum calibers. The 357 will do most of what the 41 will do and the 44 will do all that and a bit more.

The .41 is pretty much a reloader's cartridge. In which case, you can just load .44 a little lighter to throw the same bullet weight at the .41 speed, if that's what you want.

For maximum snowflakeness, it might be interesting to throat a .357 Blackhawk for .360 DW. My stupid brain is wired in such a way that ideas like that make me want to try it just to see how it works.

[Baldanders]

I suppose it does. However, you can take deer sized game humanely with a good hardcast 45 caliber bullet moving along at 900-950 fps without being too much for a modern Colt or Colt or Colt clone. A hardcast bullet with a large meplat gives a lot of penetration and while the wound track is narrow, the wide meplat does a lot of tissue damage along the way.



Nothing wrong with a 41. It's only real down side is that it's the red-headed step child of magnum calibers. The 357 will do most of what the 41 will do and the 44 will do all that and a bit more.

Okie John sums up 45 colt performance quite well in his earlier post-


The Tier 2 loads will get a lot of work done with authority without without excessive recoil or tearing up a modern revolver.

Yeah, I think the Tier 2 level would pretty much do anything I want to do. I would still lean towards a Ruger/Tier II gun because I want a gun that can use expanding heavyweight bullets reliably. Not that I wouldn't use a Smith in .45 Colt to harvest deer, but that doesn't quite scratch the .44 magnum-ish itch the way a Tier 2 platform would. (I'm not claiming it would actually allow me to do anything a Tier One couldn't, practically)

I'm not sure this thread has firmed up my decision that much, but it has certainly made the options and their various pluses and minuses pretty clear.

[Baldanders]

The .41 is pretty much a reloader's cartridge. In which case, you can just load .44 a little lighter to throw the same bullet weight at the .41 speed, if that's what you want.

For maximum snowflakeness, it might be interesting to throat a .357 Blackhawk for .360 DW. My stupid brain is wired in such a way that ideas like that make me want to try it just to see how it works.

https://www.wideopenspaces.com/360-d...tridge-rifles/

I had no idea that existed. If I was going to get guns modified AND go for pain-in-the-ass brass, sounds great.

As I said before, if .357 Maximum was a common caliber, it would certaintly lead my options. Particularly if Dan Wesson still made a revolver with interchangeable barrels in that caliber. One of those with a 4" and a 8" would be very cool.

Gun Broker actually has a Contender and a Blackhawk in .357 Max up right now.

[OlongJohnson]

Starline makes .360 DW brass.

My understanding is that Ruger recalled and destroyed all the .357 Max Blackhawks. Apparently, people were loading them with light bullets and double-base powder that cut top straps to the point of danger. At least that's what I read on the internet.

[Grizzly]

I had a 7 1/2" Ruger .357 Max on lay a way when they first came out. About the time they started talking about bullets jumping out of their jackets and flame cutting top straps, my tool truck was selling his brothers almost new 70 Series .45 acp. So I pulled my money out of the Max and bought the Colt. At the time the .357 Max had me all fired up about like you folks here in these discussions. It's all fun until your ears and wrists go.

For deer and only shooting through the lungs so as not to ruin any shoulder meat, I found my .44 Ruger Hunter most efficient with hot handloads of the Hornady xtp 180gr. If I dropped the power level down to mild magnum with 240 gr SPs the deer ran much further and were sometimes lost. I never did use cast loads on deer.

I sold off the Ruger Hunter and paid for my ccw classes and the rest went towards some much smaller handguns. I kept the Ruger .45 Colt 4 5/8 and bought an old 3" .44sp Bulldog for giggles and grins. CA finally rebarreled it in order to get it to shoot to poa and then polished it up nicely and reblued it. I voted for the .44 based on how it brought deer down for me. I think I still have some of those old Speer 200 gr flying ash trays in .45 Colt loaded hot with some Blue Dot left over for the short Ruger. I finished off a deer with them once but never used it as my primary.