That, sir, is a vulgar display of parenting.Originally Posted by JohnO
That, sir, is a vulgar display of parenting.
All very excellent points, the school district we live in is the best in the state according to every rating I can find. I will admit I probably don't have the whole picture but, I believe with the expense time and effort I have gone through I have about as good an understanding as I can have. I have had regular meetings with the school guidance counselor, assistant principle, principle, teacher, school physiologist, and psychologist. I have enrolled my son in the 504 and now worked our way into another program to which I somewhat feel railroaded into and an unsure if it is even making a difference for my son.
More background, my son is presently 7. He started kindergarten in an emersion program with English part of the day and French the other, (his mother is French born citizen) so he had a leg up on other students. His distaste for school started day one when his French teacher, (previously high school before coming here, first year with 5K) wrote a, "sad face" on his report for the day because he was having a hard time sitting still, (there is a great deal of cultural difference and expectation in France for children). Afterwards, he would not preform for his teacher counting, speaking and responding to her direction even though he could do these things at home in French, English or some basic sign language. Difficulties continued after that, if there was a personality conflict with a teacher he would act out and be defiant, with teachers/staff he got along with or were, "nice to him" he would behave. I was regularly told, "he is the most polite child they have ever met, or had at the school" (not entirely sure if they were sugar coating). He was still, "always polite and respectful" but would flat out ignore staff if he didn't get along with them. My wife and I made a decision based on the recommendation of the school to keep him back. We did so. My understanding is that kids with ADD and ADHD mature at a slower rate. Being a little old or on par with others in maturity we didn't think was a bad idea. He noticed he was kept back and was upset about it.
I will preface by sayin I do think my has ADHD from what I have read, observed and been reported from evaluations both by school and independently. To give you a better idea I have had my son independently tested twice, once by a family friend who knows him as well and is a school psychologist in a neighboring district. The second eval was completed by unbiased individual who did not know my son and was even more credentialed that the family friend. Based on all the forms we filled out, evals, observations, reports and testing he has ADHD but show now other signs of any other, "disabilities or disorders".
One of the major issues I am struggling with is that my son has been evaluated at the school, (and enrolled in 504 due to ADHD) the catalyst was difficulty getting him to finish his work among the incessant talking, questions and fidgeting. He was tested by the school and is on par or well above his grade level for most of the things I care about. I.E. math, reading writing etc. Much of the behavior experienced at school is only partially observed/experienced at home. So not everything is congruent. At the end of one of my meetings for 504 after it was decided to move forward with an individual learning plan the school physiologist voiced her opinion that she believed my son is a mildly autistic and wanted to diagnose him with Asperger's/mild autism.
I disagreed and so did other parties who have evaluated and know my son who were on the phone at the meeting. The first reaction from out family friend who specializes in autism and has now known my son for over 2 years said, "hell no." The other specialist politely disagreed. These are the same people who stated medication should be an absolute last resort due to my sons age, to which I agree despite having repeatedly by staff been told we need to try medication. Which, by the way is not legal nor ethical for them to say. At the request of my wife we have tried four different medications. All of them had serious negative reactions, two of which caused my son to start talking about killing himself or wishing he wasn't here. I am no longer willing to revisit that shit. My son went from excited, happy and sociable to down right depressed and antisocial.
To your point on not speaking ill of the school or staff I appreciate that. My wife and I have a pretty hard rule of not talking about adult stuff around the kids. I realize that everything I say and do around my children will in some way affect them. I do my best to model correctly for them so that I don't get regurgitation of my own bias and opinions. I really do appreciate the reminder as I believe we can all use it from time to time. I appreciate all the thoughts opinions and input so far. I didn't honestly expect so much from this thread so I am grateful to all. This isn't a decision I am taking lightly and will illicit all the help and information I can get. I want to have eyes wide open whether we keep our son where he is, send him to private school or home school him.
ETA: Sorry if some of this is not cleanly laid out but a lot has happened in the last several months and it's hard to organize and lay everything out on here in short time and condensed format.
Last edited by Mike C; 01-15-2020 at 12:15 PM.
Maybe of interest, maybe not ...
A classmate of mine/wife of co-worker homeschooled their boys - one is finishing an architecture MS at a major southern school, the other is at a state U doing something in the science field.
Anyway, she wrote a book on their experiences, I've heard it is well received.
https://www.amazon.com/Long-Dont-Tur...=Janell+Smiley
I was home schooled until I went to high school.
We would play various team sports with other homeschoolers in leagues or tournaments. My sisters were volleyball players, my brother and I did tennis, we all did shooting or martial arts, but the gun stuff was through 4H and the martial arts was through a nearby church. Neither were specific to homeschoolers but a few of our fellow martial arts students were homeschooled as well so they would join the group as well to take advantage of it's organization, resources and community. My Mom graduated with a degree in music education and was a pianist in her youth, so there was music as well.
This was prior to the internet so most of it was due to a very tightly knit group of homeschoolers that had a series of newsletters they sent out to keep everyone in the loop on activities, get togethers, sports etc.
Not everyone used the same curriculum or textbooks, but everyone did standardized testing. Our curriculum was a mishmash of a strong reading program for history, literature and religion. Complex subjects like mathematics, science and writing were done via a series of DVDs that coincided with textbooks that we would watch. We organized our homework and assignments with planners. Tests were administered by the parents, who then used a grading rubric. If we did poorly we were made to re-do the lesson until we could understand it.
Most people did it out of a deep mistrust of what they considered a morally bankrupt public education system, however my parents did it because my two oldest siblings had been in the public education system and it was ass. Poorly organized, ineffective at teaching concepts and a gross failure at developing a social, well rounded kid. Rural Indiana had a lot of meth, not a lot of opportunities, and the average kid there was a dumb redneck.
My mom accurately assessed the situation that the system where we lived was geared towards the lowest common denominator and wasn't based on producing high performing students. She said "I can do this better" and I'm pretty sure she did, up until we moved to a fairly affluent IL suburb following on my Dad getting a significant promotion. At that point I went to a public high school, did well, went to nursing school, did well and now I'm working as a nurse and doing well.
Tl;Dr
The Good:
1. It's great if you live somewhere that doesn't have a great public education system.
2. You won't have problems socializing of you find a good Homeschoolers group that puts events together, gets the kids socializing and has resources/advice for you
3. We performed in the top levels of standardized testing compared to our peers from public school, so our curriculum seemed to work.
4. We were allowed to explore subjects that would have been taboo in public school (firearms, martial arts and Christian theology/philosophy)
The bad:
1. It can be a bit of an echo chamber. Lots of homeschoolers tend to be conservative and deeply mistrust any public system.
2. If you don't have a group to be in, your kids will be poorly socialized and probably awkward
3. My mom was actually a teacher, so she understood how to teach. Not everyone does. Overall it's not too hard though because we kids were responsible for organizing our homework and studying and for all the educational theory out there, the most simple was "watch the lesson, read the assignments, do the homework, take the test."
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FYI. A significant percentage of students at Hillsdale have been homeschooled. The Marines recruit actively on campus and are quite welcome.
Hillsdale was an amazing experience. I remember day one at the convocation. Dr. Arnn addressed the incoming class and told them there is no grade inflation at Hillsdale. An A really requires outstanding work. He said that for the first time in 15 years there is one student on campus with a 4.0 GPA. He went on to talk about a recent graduate who was starting Harvard Law School. Arnn asked him if having a 3.8 GPA made it difficult getting into a program where everyone who gets in has a 4.0. Arnn said the student replied "no not at all they know what a 3.8 GPA from Hillsdale means. Then Arnn told us that student had the highest score in the country on the LSAT.
The work required at Hillsdale is quite rigorous. One has to be committed to be successful. They are very old school in their ways. Grades are sent to the parents. They say you're paying you should know. Every semester there is a day where you get 10 minutes to sit down with each of your child's professors. It's an event you sign up for and they ring a bell and you move on to your next appointment. All the professors are set up in cubicles or at a table in an auditorium.
I remember my daughter's first semester on campus at the meet the professor day. My daughter was struggling under the work load. I decided to sit down with the Dean of Women Students (something like that, not sure I remember her exact title). She had an open seat and I figured, how could it hurt. I mentioned my daughter adjusting to the new environment and the school. Her immediate response was, yes everyone goes through it and they all think it's only them. Then I mentioned how she had just turned 17 and had completed high school in 3 years. That woman had my daughter in her office right away and continued to check up on her throughout the semester. The attention the students get there is amazing, second to none.
Everything on campus is merit based. Want to live in a particular dorm? That's determined by your GPA. You want something? Earn it!
@Mike C, I commend your desire to give your son a better education based on your families values. There are 4 different learning styles and public schools and most private schools only cater to 1 or 2 learning styles so kids who learn differently are left behind and often "diagnosed" with ADD or ADHD just because they learn differently than some of their peers. Most of these kids are just bored or confused with what they are being taught. Homeschooling gives you a chance to not only tailor your child's education to their learning style but also teach your child how to adapt to be able to learn via any of the other learning styles.
We are Christians and seek out Christian based programs but don't be afraid of these, they are not at all in your face about Biblical teaching, they are just absent of any amoral ideals or social engineering. Just good clean education.
My wife homeschools (no internet) our daughter who is in kindergarten. We use different curricula for different subjects. My wife is really in love with the Charlotte Mason method of homeschooling where the child learns from reading real books instead of textbooks. So we read a lot to her and she is now reading children's books on her own. We do not adhere wholly to the Charlotte Mason method but we use it a lot. I am an engineer and I love math so I am teaching her math from the Singapore Math curriculum. My wife has used the All About Reading and All About Spelling curricula for a while now. She also uses Handwriting Without Tears, Sonlight, Veritas Press, and some others. Each of the programs has strengths and weaknesses based on your child's learning style and you can mix and match as much as you want. Abeka is very good but is more textbook/workbook based like a traditional school. Our daughter does not do well with that routine. There are lots of good reviews on Homeschool curricula out there on Youtube that my wife is constantly looking over.
We really don't worry about the whole socializing thing. Our daughter is very outgoing and gets plenty of socialization at church, play dates, trips to the park, etc. My mother teaches piano lessons and gets public, private and homeschooled students. She finds that the public school kids are much more socially awkward than the homeschool or private schooled kids. The homeschool kids seem to be comfortable in all situations and can carry on a meaningful conversation with an adult easily as well. Every child is different but I generally think the whole fear of your homeschooled child being socially awkward is simply not true.
I think Co-ops are great if you can find a good one. Our daughter is young and our local co-op is a bit of a train wreck for the elementary grades but looks to be very organized for the high school. So for now we are doing school at home
My daughter is excelling in her education much faster than we expected, which we attribute to tailoring her education to her learning style. She is interested and excited about school and gets to spend her day with Mommy.
Feel free to ask me any questions and if I don't know the answer I'll just ask my wife. You can PM me as well.
Last edited by Irelander; 01-15-2020 at 01:54 PM.
Jesus paid a debt he did not owe,
Because I owed a debt I could not pay.
I went to public school. In high school I took IB and AP classes; part of this status as an 'IB kid' allowed us to skip PE we had less elective requirements. Naturally I stuck with band.
In hindsight, this was a bad choice on my part, as my parents had already put us in private piano lessons for our entire childhood on the basis that it was what the wealthier Chinese immigrants were doing with their kids. I'm thankful for the influence of the creative element that music gave me, but if I could do it over again I'd have requested just sticking with music at school and trading piano for a physical component, specifically Olympic weightlifting. A few years back I volunteered as a loader at a state-level competition and felt a bit jealous at the kid who were participating, some as young as 11.
Not sure if they would have said yes. That would have been more expensive, and would have affected my dad's self-imposed obligations at church when it came to performing in Sunday worship.
Last edited by Yung; 01-15-2020 at 01:45 PM.
Take a look at Rod and Staff for primary arithmetic. Best we've found.
https://www.memoriapress.com/curricu...de-1-math-set/
When I was 14 we inquired about playing on the high school baseball team. We were told I couldn’t play because I didn’t go to that school. That was technically true, but years later I realized if I was really that good they would’ve found a way to make it happen.
But I had played city (actually three small towns) league up to that point, and my dad even coached. So yeah. It’s not like we woke up, did school, then just hid inside until we could do it again tomorrow.
All our kids were given a Mom & Dad approved list of colleges to pick from. My daughter had the grades and the smarts to get into Yale. Heck she could have commuted if they allowed it. But we were not going to send a still impressionable young adult into a liberal hotbed were pinko professors could undo the values we worked on her entire life.
Some of the schools on our short list.
Hillsdale
Thomas Aquinas College
Franciscan University
Wyoming Catholic College - It takes a unique individual here. Freshmen Orientation is a 3-week wilderness expedition in the Rocky Mountains.
University of Dallas
Thomas Moore College
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