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Thread: Hornady Handgun Hunter

  1. #1
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    Hornady Handgun Hunter

    Couldn't find a thread on these...

    https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/handgun-hunter/

    For hunting and general woods duty with service calibers I use heavy XTPs, as do most others packing handguns it seems. Kinda excited for these new guys hit the shelves as another possible deep penetration option. Seem rather interesting for city use as well. Especially if they can match or even exceed XTP/HAP accuracy standards.

    I know Barnes' handgun bullets for these calibers have been around a while now, very uniform and consistent, but give penetration on the shallow side with almost every comparison I've seen (around 11.5-13.5" gel). Combination of light for caliber bullets at a moderate velocity doesn't give enough momentum when paired with roughly 2x expansion. Personally I want more than that even in the city, so I've always wanted to see a hotter factory option with more controlled design to get them sharp petals deeper.

    Curious to hear others thoughts.

  2. #2
    Member 10mmfanboy's Avatar
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    I have been using Hornady Critical Duty for 6 or 7 years now. I find them to be the most accurate across the board in every platform and caliber. They seem to have very low flash at night as well compared to others I have tried.

    I also have had good success with handloads using xtp bullets for a woods gun. I'll take penetration over expansion any day, as long as it doesn't over penetrate to a great extent.

  3. #3
    Watching the video, this bullet appears like it is optimized more for hunting, given how they describe the quick expansion.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  4. #4
    I’ve been looking into all-copper revolver bullets with particular focus on the 44 Magnum and 45 Colt.

    In rifle bullets, the rule of thumb is that when you go from a lead-core bullet to a monometal design, you can drop one or two weight classes and get similar or slightly better performance. In .308” diameter that’s a drop from 180 grains to 150-165 grains and some guys are willing to drop down to 130 grains. The caveats are that monos need speed to expand, and that they’re best when they hit bone—lung shots don’t always offer enough resistance to make them open unless impact velocity is really high.

    The closest thing that I’ve seen to a similar rule of thumb for revolver bullets is that a monometal bullet SEEMS to perform about like a cast bullet that’s 30% heavier. I haven’t been able to find any trends in how much velocity these bullets need to work properly.

    I immediately looked to see what @DocGKR has to say about it, and found this: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....-Purpose-Loads

    The load with the clearly superior performance in BOTH the handgun and carbine was the Hornady 300 gr XTP, with 20+ inches of penetration, consistent expansion in excess of 0.70” and superb weight retention.”
    In an update, he adds

    We recently shot the .44 Mag Barnes 225 gr XPB all copper bullet loaded by Corbon--note that this is labeled as a handgun only load. [snip penetration figures] This is a relatively easy shooting .44 Mag handgun load with superb terminal performance on par with the outstanding .44 Mag 300 gr Hornady XTP load we previously evaluated.”
    Velocity of this load was 1,308 fps and penetration figures SEEM similar, which SEEMS to uphold the “+30%” rule.

    Barnes loads a 225-grain XPB in the 44 Magnum at 1,145 fps. If the “+30%” rule holds true, then that should penetrate about like a 292-grain 0.429” bullet, and would roughly match the old Federal CastCore 44 Magnum load but with significantly less recoil. Federal also loads the 225 Grain XPB Hollow Point to 1,280 fps and Remington offers it in their Hog Hammer load at 1,235 fps. I couldn't find velocity figures for the Hornady load in question.

    In the 45 Colt, Barnes loads a 200-grain XPB at 1,025 fps. I haven't chronographed it yet, but recoil is mild in a New Model Blackhawk with a 5˝” barrel--about like an old-school 38 Special 158-grain RN load in a Smith & Wesson N-frame. If the “+30%” rule solds true, then this bullet should work about like a 260-grain cast bullet. Velocity is mild in deference to the Colt Single Action Army, but 260-grain .45-caliber slugs at 1k fps have been counting coup pretty decisively since 1873 so it's no slouch.

    I pinged the dentist himself about this, but I haven’t heard back from him yet.


    Okie John
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  5. #5
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Watching the video, this bullet appears like it is optimized more for hunting, given how they describe the quick expansion.
    Seems so based on the marketing too. OTOH on the 9mm loads details it lists personal defense as an application. Descriptions emphasize the tough jacket for penetration also. It may be an interesting 115 grain load which is of interest to me for my 9mm Operator which is a 115 grain specialist.

    https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/h...dgun-hunter#!/
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by okie john View Post
    I’ve been looking into all-copper revolver bullets with particular focus on the 44 Magnum and 45 Colt.

    In rifle bullets, the rule of thumb is that when you go from a lead-core bullet to a monometal design, you can drop one or two weight classes and get similar or slightly better performance. In .308” diameter that’s a drop from 180 grains to 150-165 grains and some guys are willing to drop down to 130 grains. The caveats are that monos need speed to expand, and that they’re best when they hit bone—lung shots don’t always offer enough resistance to make them open unless impact velocity is really high.

    The closest thing that I’ve seen to a similar rule of thumb for revolver bullets is that a monometal bullet SEEMS to perform about like a cast bullet that’s 30% heavier. I haven’t been able to find any trends in how much velocity these bullets need to work properly.

    I immediately looked to see what @DocGKR has to say about it, and found this: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....-Purpose-Loads



    In an update, he adds



    Velocity of this load was 1,308 fps and penetration figures SEEM similar, which SEEMS to uphold the “+30%” rule.

    Barnes loads a 225-grain XPB in the 44 Magnum at 1,145 fps. If the “+30%” rule holds true, then that should penetrate about like a 292-grain 0.429” bullet, and would roughly match the old Federal CastCore 44 Magnum load but with significantly less recoil. Federal also loads the 225 Grain XPB Hollow Point to 1,280 fps and Remington offers it in their Hog Hammer load at 1,235 fps. I couldn't find velocity figures for the Hornady load in question.

    In the 45 Colt, Barnes loads a 200-grain XPB at 1,025 fps. I haven't chronographed it yet, but recoil is mild in a New Model Blackhawk with a 5˝” barrel--about like an old-school 38 Special 158-grain RN load in a Smith & Wesson N-frame. If the “+30%” rule solds true, then this bullet should work about like a 260-grain cast bullet. Velocity is mild in deference to the Colt Single Action Army, but 260-grain .45-caliber slugs at 1k fps have been counting coup pretty decisively since 1873 so it's no slouch.

    I pinged the dentist himself about this, but I haven’t heard back from him yet.


    Okie John
    XPB in magnum calibers definitely do a much better job penetrating than Tac XP and has a good rep. Seems to be a better expansion design, with even Barnes loading them decently hot thanks to the longer cases.

    Hoping the Hornady line gives us that with service calibers.

    Fingers crossed this will be the elastomer allowing the cavity to be a smaller size which means the bullet doesn't need to take up so much powder space. If so, the "boutique" companies and handloaders could really soup these up.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post
    Seems so based on the marketing too. OTOH on the 9mm loads details it lists personal defense as an application. Descriptions emphasize the tough jacket for penetration also. It may be an interesting 115 grain load which is of interest to me for my 9mm Operator which is a 115 grain specialist.

    https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/h...dgun-hunter#!/
    I'm mostly looking at the 9mm, .40, 10mm...for 9 it may be a 115gr load that actually does keep up or best the 147s in penetration combined with a very good looking feeding profile and likely top notch bone and barrier ability.

    If my hunch is right the elastomer can keep cavity smaller perhaps Hornady would factory load them at 1200fps. Much better than a Barnes that gets 1050fps from a G17 or 950fps from a Shield and rarely gets past 12".

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Danjojo View Post
    Couldn't find a thread on these...

    https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/handgun-hunter/

    For hunting and general woods duty with service calibers I use heavy XTPs, as do most others packing handguns it seems. Kinda excited for these new guys hit the shelves as another possible deep penetration option. Seem rather interesting for city use as well. Especially if they can match or even exceed XTP/HAP accuracy standards.

    I know Barnes' handgun bullets for these calibers have been around a while now, very uniform and consistent, but give penetration on the shallow side with almost every comparison I've seen (around 11.5-13.5" gel). Combination of light for caliber bullets at a moderate velocity doesn't give enough momentum when paired with roughly 2x expansion. Personally I want more than that even in the city, so I've always wanted to see a hotter factory option with more controlled design to get them sharp petals deeper.

    Curious to hear others thoughts.
    When I spoke to Hornady CS about their 10mm Critical Duty load vs the XTP, they told me the Critical Duty bullet was tougher and would penetrate better than the XTP load.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  9. #9
    Site Supporter OlongJohnson's Avatar
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    I'd be interested to know what the alloy is. I got pretty detailed on the "armor piercing ammunition" language back during Obama's M855/SS109 ban attempt. If the bullet is or has a core that is mostly, among other metals, brass, then it is legally prohibited for handgun use. Barnes avoids this, as far as I have been able to figure out, by making its bullets from pure copper. Hornady's GMX bullets have typically been gilding metal, which is on the order of 5 percent (plus or minus) zinc, making it technically a brass. Yellow "cartridge brass" is around 10 percent zinc. The GMX zinc percentage appears to vary by bullet SKU, based on bullets ranging in appearance from more yellow to more red. I haven't found any guidelines or conventions for a threshold of zinc percentage a copper alloy can contain and not be considered a brass. Obviously, that is of interest when we're talking about handgun bullets. (I wouldn't, for example, load the .224 GMX bullets in an AR pistol, but since it needs a lot of velocity to expand, that may not be a technically useful application in any case.) These Handgun Hunter bullets appear more red; maybe the alloying elements are not zinc or tin. I don't know a ton about copper alloys; something that increases the percent elongation to avoid shedding pedals might be very useful for the Casull and S&W loads. Just curious.

    I like the product; a marketplace with more environmentally- and health-friendly bullets for use on game is a good thing.

    One thing I think I understand about terminal ballistics is that the work done to expand a bullet has to come from the kinetic energy of the bullet. More work done in expansion means less energy remaining to penetrate. It's why .380 is so marginal: There just isn't quite a big enough pot of energy in the beginning to reliably get all the jobs done. So I would use these for soft and medium-bodied game, but for something really big, or for @GJM's mission of penetrating a bear skull, I would probably go with something like the Cutting Edge solids instead if I used a revolver. Even a really big handgun still isn't a rifle and doesn't get to the ~2300 fps muzzle velocity where Federal says rifle things start to happen. All the energy goes to penetration, and you rely on the flat nose with crisp leading edge for tissue damage. Although I'd still go with the Lehigh in a semi as a better option.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    When I spoke to Hornady CS about their 10mm Critical Duty load vs the XTP, they told me the Critical Duty bullet was tougher and would penetrate better than the XTP load.
    I like the Critical Duty line also and stock some for bigger 9s and 45s. The 45 one being such a beast might be why Hornady isn't bothering with a 45 option for this line. The lighter weight and sharper looking edges of the new line is what has me interested in comparing them to the CD line and XTPs.

    There's old brassfetcher tests showing even the mild loaded Tac XP expanding through simulated bone that would deform traditional JHPs so it might be another area of improvement.

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