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Thread: Front sight - press

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Gio View Post
    Yes definitely. There are a lot of benefits of training to shoot target focus that crossover into real world application, this being the primary one. I think most individuals in deadly force encounters tend to focus on the target anyway, which contributes to the poor hit ratio among law enforcement officers and concealed carry holders who are likely looking over their sights, having never practiced shooting with a target focus on the range and likely not even realize they are shooting target focused when under tremendous stress/pressure.

    In my experience if you regularly train to bring your sights to your point of focus and shoot that way without transitioning your focal point back to your sights, you are going to be able to make accurate shots with a target focus sight picture under stress.
    Does it matter to you whether the front sight is fiber optic, high vis, etc? Just curious. I have been sort of trying to shoot target focused on everything for USPSA simply because it's more congruent with how I handle target transitions, swingers, etc, but that is with a fairly bright green fiber.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyesquared View Post
    Does it matter to you whether the front sight is fiber optic, high vis, etc? Just curious. I have been sort of trying to shoot target focused on everything for USPSA simply because it's more congruent with how I handle target transitions, swingers, etc, but that is with a fairly bright green fiber.
    Yes, that makes a big difference for me. A high viz (Trijicon HD, Ameriglo Bold), fiber, or even a weaponlight activated to really make the sights stand out is necessary for me to shoot target focus effectively.
    Formerly givo08.

  3. #63
    Member Earlymonk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCinVA View Post
    Making an accurate shot requires a lot less on the sights than people think. It's mostly about trigger. All we are looking for is "enough" sights to make the hit.
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    For most pistols shots, people vastly overate the amount of aiming that is required. Rob Leatham made a video about that. Heck, if your index is good enough, you donít need any sights, as Jim Wall of Milt Sparks demonstrates by winning a big match with no sights on his 1911.
    Quote Originally Posted by YVK View Post
    Stoeger is the most credible proponent of target focused shooting and I don't think he has vision problems. He thinks it is a faster way to shoot without giving up much accuracy.
    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post
    Indeed, and I am pretty sure Frank Proctor is not a hard front sight focus pistol shooter either. He speaks of seeing through the sights.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave T View Post
    [assuming enough good reps]...your hands, arms and shoulders know how to align the handgun with where your eyes are looking, no matter if you can see the sights or not.
    Dave
    Quote Originally Posted by 41magfan View Post
    When the sights are used however, the degree in which they are utilized (sight focus vs target focus) can be best described as a continuum - NOT an absolute.
    Quote Originally Posted by JAD View Post
    [Cooper] believed in something very like index shooting / target focus at the level of mastery.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gio View Post
    There are a lot of benefits of training to shoot target focus that crossover into real world application, this being the primary one. I think most individuals in deadly force encounters tend to focus on the target anyway, which contributes to the poor hit ratio among law enforcement officers and concealed carry holders who are likely looking over their sights, having never practiced shooting with a target focus on the range and likely not even realize they are shooting target focused when under tremendous stress/pressure.

    In my experience if you regularly train to bring your sights to your point of focus and shoot that way without transitioning your focal point back to your sights, you are going to be able to make accurate shots with a target focus sight picture under stress.
    Late to this thread, but it's pretty cool that every single conclusion above is borne out by the optical study referenced HERE.

  4. #64
    Member Earlymonk's Avatar
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    And here's what I see as the "cruxy" bit of GJM's older thread from a few years back:

    Quote Originally Posted by John Hearne View Post

    I credit my ability to shoot well with target focus to the extensive practice I've done with front sight focus. ...using a laser based cell phone app. ...I was developing a very strong kinesthetic index that presented the pistol to a particular spot in space with a high degree of precision.

    ...That kinesthetic index combined with a painted fiber optic front sight allowed me to see less than I thought I needed to in order to get the hits. Without the extensive dry work to get me the kinesthetic index, I don't think the target focused shooting would have been effective. I can see how target focused shooting may be a desired end state but you have to use a lot of front sight focused shooting to get there.
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Either that, or take the short cut of learning on a RDS equipped pistol. That will force a great index and teach you how to target focus.
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    ...a dot is like hiring a full time trigger control coach, because of the feedback it provides. It makes you even more visual and it is requires a perfect index.

  5. #65
    Gunsite?

    My 270 on 09/06/1986, and 250 on 10/25/1986. Cooper managed the instruction for both, but was busy elsewhere part of the time.

    Good times.

  6. #66
    Target focus?

    Eighty percent of my dry fire is done from 8 ft (measured) on a 1/3rd scale target, so 8 yards effective. I have devolved into looking through the notch in the rear sight to see the target. As soon as the rear notch outlines what I want to hit, I press the trigger -- then confirm where the front sight is.

    In effect, the target replaces the front sight during the presentation. At hammerfall the front sight is restored to its throne.

  7. #67
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    This discussion on target-focused shooting and not worrying about achieving a perfect sight picture has got me thinking. We've seen it stated in this thread that these techniques have allowed people to focus on what's most important: the trigger press. When the question of preferred sights is raised, then how about a sight system that let's a shooter "put that big white blurry dot on the target and make a solid trigger press"? Yes, I'm specifically thinking about XS Big Dot sights. I realize that's close to blasphemy around much of the Gunterwebs, but I'm curious what others may think in this specific application. Would a practitioner of target-focused shooting who has a very solid index on the draw benefit from XS sights? Especially if/when their eyesight isn't as strong as it used to be? From what I understand, the recommended application of XS Big Dot sights is: 0-10 yards - place the dot on the POI, 10-25 yards - place the top of the dot on the POI. Does that take away the worry about covering too much of the target? Worthy of consideration?

  8. #68
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    I had a buddy who did pretty well in IDPA with XS sights. Didn't seem to have trouble unless he shot at small steel targets.

    Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris17404 View Post
    This discussion on target-focused shooting and not worrying about achieving a perfect sight picture has got me thinking. We've seen it stated in this thread that these techniques have allowed people to focus on what's most important: the trigger press. When the question of preferred sights is raised, then how about a sight system that let's a shooter "put that big white blurry dot on the target and make a solid trigger press"? Yes, I'm specifically thinking about XS Big Dot sights. I realize that's close to blasphemy around much of the Gunterwebs, but I'm curious what others may think in this specific application. Would a practitioner of target-focused shooting who has a very solid index on the draw benefit from XS sights? Especially if/when their eyesight isn't as strong as it used to be? From what I understand, the recommended application of XS Big Dot sights is: 0-10 yards - place the dot on the POI, 10-25 yards - place the top of the dot on the POI. Does that take away the worry about covering too much of the target? Worthy of consideration?
    In my experience, a bright red fiber optic front sight with a wide, plain black notch rear sight is far superior to any big dot setup. You can use the fiber optic as effectively as the big dot for target focused shooting. But the FO is superior to any big dot for precision shots. While I hardly ever do it (because I hardly ever need to), I can tilt my head back slightly and look at the front sight through the near correction in my progressive lenses and see it crystal clear.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris17404 View Post
    Yes, I'm specifically thinking about XS Big Dot sights.
    It may seem counterintuitive to some, but if we look at the world's fastest and most accurate shooters, they're using skinny sights, not fat sights.

    In fact, if we scan the gun shooting world for people of notoriety who extol the virtues of XS Big Dots on semi auto pistols, I can think of just 1 person.

    With regard to age and poor vision, I don't think the 50+ guys still burning it down like Leatham, Jarrett or Miculek are using 180" front posts.

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