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Thread: Front sight - press

  1. #21
    You didnt lead it anywhere wrong, bud. I didnt have any particular direction in mind when I started it. This is purely thought provoking, anyone is free to post in any way they can relate.

    My personal thought behind it was the dogma challenge. We've been told since the time we started shooting that choosing between the three focal planes along that line, we must prioritize the middle one if any degree of accuracy is needed. Leaving the most outcome important focal plane blurry. We now have evidence that it is not a necessity. You've someone mediocre like me hitting 4 inch circle at 25. You've someone very good like Ben killing it at Nationals at huge speed and with some 95% points collected. It's very thought provoking. Maybe in 10-15 we'll have a new generation of people who will teach target -press. Maybe not.
    “Well," said Pooh, "what I like best," and then he had to stop and think. Because although Eating Honey was a very good thing to do, there was a moment just before you began to eat it which was better than when you were, but he didn't know what it was called.

  2. #22
    Site Supporter LOKNLOD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Why would it matter if your focus is on the front sight, or the target, if your sights are properly pointed at the target.
    The ol' "see what you need to see". What you need is to ensure the sights are aligned. If you can align fuzzy shapes, you never really need focus on them. Or if they provide enough reference to be aligned while fuzzy...

    I'm become a staunch proponent of the hi-viz front and black rear, but it almost makes me wonder if a traditional 3-dot setup, while distracting when you're shooting for a hard front sight focus, isn't necessarily a bad thing if you were trying to align the dots while target focused.
    --Josh
    When I draw, I don't deactivate the safety; I activate the danger.

  3. #23
    I think we agree that the “vision” part is a very important part of shooting. Where there are differences is in what “vision” means. Some interpret vision to mean a hard front sight focus. To me, vision includes leading with my eyes to the next target, watching the target through the entire shot, calling my shot, and not eye sprinting to the next target prematurely. Since I shoot a dot, I stay target focused, and most of the time when I shoot iron sights, I shoot target focused, since that is my default.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  4. #24
    Site Supporter LOKNLOD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Since I shoot a dot, I stay target focused, and most of the time when I shoot iron sights, I shoot target focused, since that is my default.
    For guys who shot dogs and transition back to irons, GJM and others who are doing this, do you feel it’s improved your ability to shoot irons, or dulled that skill?
    Last edited by LOKNLOD; 01-14-2020 at 08:21 AM. Reason: Stupid autocorrect typos
    --Josh
    When I draw, I don't deactivate the safety; I activate the danger.

  5. #25
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YVK View Post
    I find it interesting that the discussion kind of turned to limited eye sight / impaired vision shooters.

    Stoeger is the most credible proponent of target focused shooting and I don't think he has vision problems. He thinks it is a faster way to shoot without giving up much accuracy. And The Way to shoot when shooter or target are not stationary. Irrespective of visual acuity.
    Indeed, and I am pretty sure Frank Proctor is not a hard front sight focus pistol shooter either. He speaks of seeing through the sights. I've not had this particular course of instruction with him however.

    IMO the neat thing about tying in the impaired vision angle is the ah ha! moment this opens up for shooters that just think they're impaired vs "differently abled." LOL

    I introduced target focus pistol shooting to a young mid twenties shooter about a year ago who is a very good trigger presser. On 25 yard 8" plates he could knock them down with target focus as easily as he had with front sight focus right out the gate, as in he was going 6 for 6. He was pretty astounded by his own experience.

    Sometimes, like right now, I think I should really go all in for a few months on target focus and see what happens. Even though my Varilux X are working, some days I still wear contacts and they are more variable day to day. And poor lighting can really degrade me - not darkness, just like overcast even.
    Last edited by JHC; 01-14-2020 at 08:27 AM.
    "I realized all the mindset talk was useless without action and that with action, all the mindset talk was unnecessary." - Mike Pannone

  6. #26
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GOTURBACK View Post
    I am sorry I led this thread adrift, I guess with my skill level which is surely much less than many here, and no where near Stoeger, or Leatham I was having a hard time wrapping my head around the target focus method being accurate enough to make low probability shot when missing means hitting an innocent human being. Back on track guys.
    I'd be very curious if Jack Wilson had corrective lenses on or if he shot target focus for that head shot. I can't imagine his 71 year old vision naturally gives him a crisp front sight.
    "I realized all the mindset talk was useless without action and that with action, all the mindset talk was unnecessary." - Mike Pannone

  7. #27
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    I try to shoot target focus as much as I can for any action/defensive pistol shooting. I find myself dropping back into a comfortable front sight focus occasionally in matches when i'm shooting like a b#%!&, but my practice sessions tell me I can get away with target focus on any difficulty of target presentation in USPSA at any level. One of my biggest take-aways from nationals this year was that I shot too conservatively on several difficult stages, and found myself falling back on a hard front sight focus when I didn't need it. At local matches, I make a conscious effort to target focus everything.
    Last edited by Gio; 01-14-2020 at 09:39 AM.
    Formerly givo08.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by LOKNLOD View Post
    For guys who shot dogs and transition back to irons, GJM and others who are doing this, do you feel it’s improved your ability to shoot irons, or dulled that skill?
    It is a loaded question. The standard or most common answer is yes, it helps your irons shooting.

    A credible answer should be quantitative. I dont know of many people who got really good with dot and then went back to serious performance-measured shooting with irons. Personally, I know that I didn't get any worse. I still shoot irons regularly, just not in matches or on a clock much. I do believe that dot did help my irons but I don't know that for sure.
    I can tell for sure that shooting the dot greatly improved my understanding what I can do to improve my irons shooting.
    “Well," said Pooh, "what I like best," and then he had to stop and think. Because although Eating Honey was a very good thing to do, there was a moment just before you began to eat it which was better than when you were, but he didn't know what it was called.

  9. #29
    Murder Machine, Harmless Fuzzball TCinVA's Avatar
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    NVM, errant click.

    To quote ARay, the sights whisper to you. The dot yells at you.

    It's like a coach sitting on the top of your gun and it helps you see things that most don't see with iron sights. As a result, they pick up on errors they hadn't seen before and now they can correct them...and viola: They shoot better.
    Last edited by TCinVA; 01-14-2020 at 11:19 AM.
    3/15/2016

  10. #30
    The timing of this post is awesome. I picked up a SIRT about six months ago and discovered through lots of dry-fire that I was able to hit relatively small targets out to about 10-12 yards using full target focus, where I was only peripherally aware of the alignment of blurry sights intercepting my field of view. In my opinion, this is mandatory - at least for me - when trying to hit dynamically moving targets.

    @YVK, were you looking through your sites or over them? Curious...

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