The big 10.5"-12.5" general purpose pistol/SBR thread

[navyman8903]

He's looking at a Geissele 10.3", which uses the .070" gas port as specified by Crane.

So, yeah.

Then I defer to your judgement, but it looks like their 10.3 uses an 11.5 barrel lol (probably a typo)

https://geissele.com/super-duty-pist...0mm-green.html

[navyman8903]

Has anyone here put some rounds through Geissele’s new Duty Pistols or Super Duty Pistols?
I’ve been eying the Duty Pistol (currently out of stock), but wondering how (un)pleasant the muzzle blast would be with the 10.3” barrel.
And if ponying up the big bucks for the Super Duty Pistol, might the 11.5” barrel be a better choice?

So in summation, if you get a short boi (10.3) make sure it has a .070 gas port size or you might have a bad time. The URGI or super duty seems to be good to go. The 11.5 is what I would recommend. If the recoil is a tad on the sharp side I would recommend progressively changing things to adjust it so long as you're firing 5.56. My 11.5 runs 55gr 5.56 all the way to black hills 77gr TMK's smoothly and without issue so far.

Geissele also makes a nice H2 to use with their super 42 spring which I run in my 11.5 Super duty and 14.5 URGI without any issue. But I run brass 5.56 pressure stuff, can't say based on my ammo consumption it'll run steel cased or .223 pressure.

[navyman8903]

......

.......

Wait a second......my KAC SR16 runs the 21057 as per KAC and that's an H2 weight......... I don't know the gas port size because I can't find it. But KAC really regulates their gas systems, there's no bleed off. I'm sure the Geissele is the same having installed a few bomb proof gas blocks at this point. So I'm sure the 10.3 can run an H2 weight without issue.



Geissele themselves also recommends an "H2" or "H3" suppressed or unsuppressed............ How am I giving bad info again?

https://geissele.com/super-42-braide...-combo-h3.html


Edit:
AAAAAAANNNNND The goddamn gun comes from geissele with their H3 installed!!!

[Casual Friday]

So I'm not refuting your experience. The 11.5 Geissele uses a .068 vs their 10.3 using the .070. The 10.3's I've shot are noticeably rougher on recoil and timing. I've run more than a few to include LMT, DD, a BCM 10.something and a few other 10.5's. There are also plenty of 10.3's out there with broken bolt lugs. Which was the highlighted issue with the 10.3's is the reduced internal parts life. I'm not saying it's impossible to get one to run right, there's just a few steps you have to take and the gas port size is important. I would submit that any length gun with an improper gas port size for the length/gas system length will be miserable to shoot.

The only smooth 10.5 I've fired was a noveske with an adjustable gas block both unsuppressed and suppressed.

When did BCM make a 10.something 5.56 upper?

I'll agree with you that most 10.3/10.5 uppers are harsher operating than most 11.5" uppers because most companies are still blowing up the gas port to make up for dudes trying to run Tula through them. A 10.3 with a Crane spec gas port and H1 or H2 buffer is quite different.

[TGS]

Wait a second......my KAC SR16 runs the 21057 as per KAC and that's an H2 weight......... I don't know the gas port size because I can't find it. But KAC really regulates their gas systems, there's no bleed off. I'm sure the Geissele is the same having installed a few bomb proof gas blocks at this point. So I'm sure the 10.3 can run an H2 weight without issue.



Geissele themselves also recommends an "H2" or "H3" suppressed or unsuppressed............ How am I giving bad info again?

https://geissele.com/super-42-braide...-combo-h3.html


Edit:
AAAAAAANNNNND The goddamn gun comes from geissele with their H3 installed!!!

Please read what I wrote, and then read what you wrote.

[navyman8903]

Please read what I wrote, and then read what you wrote.

No I did this time. You said I'm giving out information that will make a member's gun less reliable, when Geissele is shipping their .070 gas port 10.3 super duty guns with an H3 buffer.

[navyman8903]

When did BCM make a 10.something 5.56 upper?

I'll agree with you that most 10.3/10.5 uppers are harsher operating than most 11.5" uppers because most companies are still blowing up the gas port to make up for dudes trying to run Tula through them. A 10.3 with a Crane spec gas port and H1 or H2 buffer is quite different.

You're correct, I just talked with my buddy about his BCM and it's not a 10.5.

[ASH556]

Most people run a sprinco red spring or blue spring with an H3 buffer which is a really heavy setup to offset the severity of the recoil/gas.

11.5 all the way. Unless you're getting a 10.3-10.5 with an adjustable gas block, then 11.5. They're so much better.

This is where you're steering people astray.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Shorter AR's cycle faster than longer ones...fact. I'll be we can agree on that. Your posts assert that there is some massive void between a 10.3 and 11.5 where the 10.3 is completely unreliable, harsh to shoot, and requires lots of extra tweaks to even get to run, whereas the 11.5 is a panacea of bliss.

That's the part we're calling you out for.

If your KAC 11.5 runs fine with an H2, why is having an H2 in a 10.3" gun all of a sudden "extra parts to make it run well"? Guess what else has an H2? A 14.5" SOCOM. Guess what will run with an H3? Your KAC 11.5 and my 10.3.

Adjustable gas is not needed. Boutique springs are not needed.

If you like 11.5, cool. 10.3 is just not the buggar you're making it out to be.

[navyman8903]

This is where you're steering people astray.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Shorter AR's cycle faster than longer ones...fact. I'll be we can agree on that. Your posts assert that there is some massive void between a 10.3 and 11.5 where the 10.3 is completely unreliable, harsh to shoot, and requires lots of extra tweaks to even get to run, whereas the 11.5 is a panacea of bliss.

That's the part we're calling you out for.

If your KAC 11.5 runs fine with an H2, why is having an H2 in a 10.3" gun all of a sudden "extra parts to make it run well"? Guess what else has an H2? A 14.5" SOCOM. Guess what will run with an H3? Your KAC 11.5 and my 10.3.

Adjustable gas is not needed. Boutique springs are not needed.

If you like 11.5, cool. 10.3 is just not the buggar you're making it out to be.

You're over simplifying my argument and putting words in my mouth. I did not make them out to be those extremes. I will concede I can make improvements in the delivery of my argument/postion. I also conceded that I may have fired guns without the .070 gas port size. But the Coast guard and NCIS MK18's should be crane spec right?

I don't remember saying they're required for operation, but make the experience better. Which they do. I also never said the guns don't work.

I'm also aghast at the silence regarding Geissele sending their guns out with H3's. EVEN their 11.5's it seems as per their descriptions on their website. You two might want to give MR. Bill your experiences so you can avert him from the clear collision course he's on.


I will also concede "running well" is subjective. My preferred recoil impulse, length of pull, muzzle device, overall weight, sling placement, optic, reticle, cans ect are all going to be subjective. So in closing so there is ZERO wiggle room for misconception. You can EASILY purchase a DD MK18 AFTER 2018 with the .070 gas port size and run it as is. The 11.5 offered by Geissele, or even my SR16 to include the KAC 11.5 SR15 CQB as those are my highest round count/consistent time on the gun will run smoother, which I equate to recoil impulse and ease of keeping on target for follow up shots. I've found through my experience the 11.5 is easier to accomplish the mission of smooth recoil, follow up shots, and I've observed, based on my experience the cycle of operations feels better TO ME and those who have fired my rifles based on their verbal feedback to me.

[TGS]

You're over simplifying my argument and putting words in my mouth. I did not make them out to be those extremes. I will concede I can make improvements in the delivery of my argument/postion. I also conceded that I may have fired guns without the .070 gas port size. But the Coast guard and NCIS MK18's should be crane spec right?

I don't remember saying they're required for operation, but make the experience better. Which they do. I also never said the guns don't work.

I'm also aghast at the silence regarding Geissele sending their guns out with H3's. EVEN their 11.5's it seems as per their descriptions on their website. You two might want to give MR. Bill your experiences so you can avert him from the clear collision course he's on.

Aghast at the silence? Jesus christ dude, it's been like a half hour, sorry that I didn't read your post right away. Dramatic much?

It looks like the chart for Geissele recommends H3 for suppressed. I can easily see that, suppressors introduce a lot of backpressure. Like I said, I don't think it will probably make a huge difference anyway given an H buffer + LAW BCG extension is nearly the equal of an H3.

So, okay. I honestly didn't know that Geissele shipped their 10.3" guns with H3s. As I said, Crane designed the Mk18 to run on an H2 suppressed or unsuppressed, and if it wasn't clear enough that's generally what I think would be wise to stick by. Feel better? Or are you aghast still?

Even if you're aghast, I think I'm done here.