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Thread: Something to keep an eye out for: Hydra-Shok Deep .380

  1. #21
    Site Supporter ccmdfd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Dobbs View Post
    You cannot overcome the laws of physics with great ads and gimmick projectiles. Something was sacrificed for passing performance here. Was it expansion or chamber pressure?
    I understand your point, but on the other hand, today's 9mm JHP rounds are considered very superior to the JHP of 10+ years ago. Was something sacrificed to make that happen?
    if 9mm could be improved, why not .380?

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  2. #22
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Given the penetration capability of something like S&B FMJ in .380, I'm sure a minimally expanding .380 can consistently hit 12-14" without a bone strike. It doesn't strike me as terribly unbelievable. I note that they reference auto glass, etc. but then say their larger calibers are tested to those standards and then drop the matter for the .380. I suspect this is done so a casual reading makes it looks like it passes the entirety of the FBI testing protocols.
    Last edited by BehindBlueI's; 01-16-2020 at 09:20 AM.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccmdfd View Post
    I understand your point, but on the other hand, today's 9mm JHP rounds are considered very superior to the JHP of 10+ years ago. Was something sacrificed to make that happen?
    if 9mm could be improved, why not .380?

    cc
    The 9mm wasn't saddled with physical science limitations of mass, momentum and sectional density surfeits. It simply had horrible projectile design (a topic with which I'm very familiar from long ago LE experience), which as you've noted, is not an issue anymore.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfan26 View Post
    I’m surprised you would be a challenger of factory claimed data...


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    Not me! I'll just sit in my corner awaiting some actual DocGKR testing of this. My prediction is that it expands well in bare calibrated 10% gel but underpenetrates and is a fail in 4LD. Auto glass will be a hilarious failure. Let's see what it does in valid testing, because right now you're being romanced by ad copy that doesn't even have the terms spelled correctly.
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  5. #25
    To work within the pressure curve that allows pistols up to 100 years old function it likely has controlled (less) but more consistent expansion than current offerings. So likely not service caliber performance.

    It's still a .380.

    The cost of testing the ammo will likely exceed the cost of the firearm.

    But, if it works I can see a 42 in my future possibly.

  6. #26
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Dobbs View Post
    Not me! I'll just sit in my corner awaiting some actual DocGKR testing of this. My prediction is that it expands well in bare calibrated 10% gel but underpenetrates and is a fail in 4LD. Auto glass will be a hilarious failure. Let's see what it does in valid testing, because right now you're being romanced by ad copy that doesn't even have the terms spelled correctly.
    In fairness, they aren't claiming a pass for auto glass, only bare gel and heavy clothing.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    In fairness, they aren't claiming a pass for auto glass, only bare gel and heavy clothing.
    Agreed, but having gone from the police world to the gun industry world, I recognize ad writing that the typical customer, not as dialed in as are most in this group, would form the impression that this popgun ammo will pass the FBI ammo testing protocol.

    I've learned from watching the ammo testing that really came to light about 1987 and morphed into what we see today, that if a load does well in 4LD and auto glass, you have a winner. If it doesn't, you're playing craps with your life and the lives of those whom you may have to defend. Do some circumstances require such risk? I guess so, but hopefully, Doc will come along and tell you about the repeat customer he saw with .380 torso wounds...three times in two years.
    Last edited by Wayne Dobbs; 01-16-2020 at 11:49 AM.
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  8. #28
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Dobbs View Post
    Agreed, but having gone from the police world to the gun industry world, I recognize ad writing that the typical customer, not as dialed in as are most in this group, would form the impression that this popgun ammo will pass the FBI ammo testing protocol.
    Agreed, which is why I previously posted: "I note that they reference auto glass, etc. but then say their larger calibers are tested to those standards and then drop the matter for the .380. I suspect this is done so a casual reading makes it looks like it passes the entirety of the FBI testing protocols."

    That's the fluffiest way possible to say it won't pass auto glass. I suspect .38 wadcutters won't either, but we're not expecting them to. Ad fluff aside, this isn't a stand in for a duty cartridge and I suspect that people aren't cross shopping this with the 147gr 9mm offerings any more than they are the wadcutters. It's a compromise cartridge, not a duty cartridge. If it's an improvement over existing .380, great for .380 guys.
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  9. #29
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    You just revived a curiosity on wadcutters vs auto glass. I'm guessing the factory swaged target loads would fail miserably on laminated glass, but would a relatively hard cast WC loaded to full power (say 800 fps or more) possibly make it? That's a test that should be done.
    Last edited by Wayne Dobbs; 01-16-2020 at 12:05 PM.
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  10. #30
    Site Supporter Hambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Dobbs View Post
    Not me! I'll just sit in my corner awaiting some actual DocGKR testing of this. My prediction is that it expands well in bare calibrated 10% gel but underpenetrates and is a fail in 4LD.
    Taking the safe bet, eh? I'll say that this ends up being very similar to their .380 HST. Federal will have at least three .380 defense JHPs, each designed to capture a certain segment of the market. Whether you like your hamburgers round or square, it's still just a hamburger.
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