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Thread: Something to keep an eye out for: Hydra-Shok Deep .380

  1. #11
    Site Supporter Det1397's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokarev View Post
    Hydra-Shok Deep is pretty new and is an update to the legacy Hydra-Shok.

    Up to this point it has only been available in 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 Auto...

    Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
    When I picked up a G42 several years ago, one of the rounds I picked up and T&E'd was the Federal PD380HSI H, 90 grain Hydra-Shok JHP Personal Defense-Low Recoil. The round functions perfectly in my G42 but in the end I opted for the Precision One XTP and the Underwood/Lehigh Defense Xtreme Penetrator or Xtreme Defender loadings.

    But up to this point keep in mind the words of @DocGKR
    "Many small, easily concealed semi-automatic pistols which are recommended for law enforcement backup or concealed carry use fire .380 ACP or smaller bullets. While these small caliber handgun bullets can produce fatal wounds,they are less likely to produce the rapid incapacitation necessary in law enforcement or self-defense situations.

    Handguns chambered in .380 ACP are small, compact, and generally easy to carry. Unfortunately, testing has shown that they offer inadequate performance for self-defense and for law enforcement use whether on duty as a back-up weapon or for off duty carry. The terminal performance of .380 ACP JHP's is often erratic, with inadequate penetration and inconsistent expansion being common problems, while .380 ACP FMJ's offer adequate penetration, but no expansion. All of the .380 ACP JHP loads we have tested, including CorBon, Hornady, Federal, Remington, Speer, and Winchester exhibited inconsistent, unacceptable terminal performance for law enforcement back-up and off duty self-defense use due to inadequate penetration or inadequate expansion. Stick with FMJ for .380 ACP or better yet, don't use it at all. The use of .380 ACP and smaller caliber weapons is really not recommended for LE use and many savvy agencies prohibit them.
    While both the .380 ACP and .38 sp can obviously be lethal; the .38 sp is more likely to incapacitate an attacker when used in a BUG role."
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    When carrying a .380 in the role of a BUG or deep-concealed primary or whatever role, Remember what the round is capable of and act/respond accordingly...

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Det1397 View Post
    When I picked up a G42 several years ago, one of the rounds I picked up and T&E'd was the Federal PD380HSI H, 90 grain Hydra-Shok JHP Personal Defense-Low Recoil. The round functions perfectly in my G42 but in the end I opted for the Precision One XTP and the Underwood/Lehigh Defense Xtreme Penetrator or Xtreme Defender loadings.

    But up to this point keep in mind the words of @DocGKR
    "Many small, easily concealed semi-automatic pistols which are recommended for law enforcement backup or concealed carry use fire .380 ACP or smaller bullets. While these small caliber handgun bullets can produce fatal wounds,they are less likely to produce the rapid incapacitation necessary in law enforcement or self-defense situations.

    Handguns chambered in .380 ACP are small, compact, and generally easy to carry. Unfortunately, testing has shown that they offer inadequate performance for self-defense and for law enforcement use whether on duty as a back-up weapon or for off duty carry. The terminal performance of .380 ACP JHP's is often erratic, with inadequate penetration and inconsistent expansion being common problems, while .380 ACP FMJ's offer adequate penetration, but no expansion. All of the .380 ACP JHP loads we have tested, including CorBon, Hornady, Federal, Remington, Speer, and Winchester exhibited inconsistent, unacceptable terminal performance for law enforcement back-up and off duty self-defense use due to inadequate penetration or inadequate expansion. Stick with FMJ for .380 ACP or better yet, don't use it at all. The use of .380 ACP and smaller caliber weapons is really not recommended for LE use and many savvy agencies prohibit them.
    While both the .380 ACP and .38 sp can obviously be lethal; the .38 sp is more likely to incapacitate an attacker when used in a BUG role."
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    When carrying a .380 in the role of a BUG or deep-concealed primary or whatever role, Remember what the round is capable of and act/respond accordingly...
    I think the point of post #1 (which, obviously, started this thread) is that this new .380 HydraShok Deep might offer better penetration, and therefore be more acceptable and useful in a self-defense roll.

  3. #13
    Here is the latest from Federal:


    – The newest addition to Federal’s Hydra-Shok Deep lineup is the industry’s first expanding 380 Auto to consistently meet FBI protocol recommendations for penetration (12 inches minimum) through bare gel and through heavy clothing.

    In response to the growing popularity of ultra-compact handguns by citizens of all ages, genders and demographics particularly among shooters looking for a downsized yet effective defender Federal Premium has expanded its award-wining Hydra-Shok Deep lineup with a new 99-grain 380 Auto load.

    This new offering is tailor-made for arming compact, concealed-carry “pocket pistols” or “micro guns” with an expanding, yet deepest-penetrating round. The new Hydra-Shok Deep 380 Auto even exceeds the FBI protocol performance measures of 12 inches minimum through both the bare gel and heavy clothing tests. These are achievements the industry has never seen before in the 380 Auto cartridge.

    “FBI protocol incudes a series of rigorous scenarios. Bullets are shot through materials such as 10-percent ordinance gelatin, laminated automotive safety glass, plywood, wallboard and heavy clothing specified by the FBI,” said Federal Handgun Ammunition Product Manager Chris Laack. “While our larger caliber ammunition is designed to meet and exceed these requirements, the smaller 380 Auto is designed to offer the best possible blend of performance in a compact handgun platform.”

    Testing done by Federal ammunition engineers in their Anoka, Minnesota facilities showed typical results of 13 to 13 ½ inches of penetration in bare gel and 13 ¼ to 14 inches through heavy clothing. Test gun barrel lengths were from common, compact handguns ranging from 2 ¾ to 3 ½ inches. The bullet and load are also fine-tuned to ensure delivery of consistent performance across all handgun platforms, including ones with longer barrels, to stay within that 13- to 14-inch goal range.

    Hydra-Shok Deep has quickly become a favorite of those who rely on ammunition to protect themselves and their families. The product lineup now consists of four loads with the new 380 Auto 99-grain being the latest. Also available are 9mm Luger 135-grain, 40 S&W 165-grain and 45 Auto 210-grain. Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Prices range from $25.95 to $33.95 from 20-count boxes.

    Federal ammunition can be found at dealers nationwide or purchased online direct from Federal. For more information on all products from Federal or to shop online, visit www.federalpremium.com.


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  4. #14
    Site Supporter HeavyDuty's Avatar
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    Ooooh. I’m almost embarrassed to admit how much carry my LCP got, and now my 42. I switched to ball a few months back, but this may prove to be the best solution for a pocket .380 yet.
    Ken

    BBI: ...”you better not forget the safe word because shit's about to get weird”...
    revchuck38: ...”mo' ammo is mo' betta' unless you're swimming or on fire.”

  5. #15
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    And Federal doesn't even know how to spell correctly in their ad. It's "ordnance gel", not "ordinance gel". And color me very skeptical on the performance. You cannot overcome the laws of physics with great ads and gimmick projectiles. Something was sacrificed for passing performance here. Was it expansion or chamber pressure?
    Regional Government Sales Manager for Aimpoint, Inc. USA
    Co-owner Hardwired Tactical Shooting (HiTS)

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Dobbs View Post
    You cannot overcome the laws of physics with great ads and gimmick projectiles. Something was sacrificed for passing performance here. Was it expansion or chamber pressure?
    Chamber pressure should be similar to the Federal 99 grain HST @ 1030 fps from a 3.75" barrel.

    The Hornady 90 grain XTP and Federal 90 grain Hydra-Shok can penetrate to around 12 inches or so as long as average expanded diameter is less than about .450"

    However, here is a quote from firearmstactical.com
    https://web.archive.org/web/20140708...m/briefs26.htm

    "The HydraShok ammunition of today is different from the version tested by the FBI. The primary difference is the thickness of the post. Federal apparently redesigned the post so it would collapse when the bullet expands. In previous generations of HydraShok the post remained erect after bullet expansion. This was not desirable for two reasons:

    1. The erect post propelled tissue out of the path of the expanded bullet, reducing the amount of tissue that was contacted and crushed as the bullet penetrated. As a result, the bullet produced a narrower, but deeper, permanent cavity compared to conventional JHP bullets of the same caliber, weight, velocity and expanded diameter."

    The new Hydra-Shok Deep offerings have VERY robust posts.
    Last edited by Velo Dog; 01-15-2020 at 08:16 PM.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Dobbs View Post
    And Federal doesn't even know how to spell correctly in their ad. It's "ordnance gel", not "ordinance gel". And color me very skeptical on the performance. You cannot overcome the laws of physics with great ads and gimmick projectiles. Something was sacrificed for passing performance here. Was it expansion or chamber pressure?
    I’m surprised you would be a challenger of factory claimed data...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  8. #18
    Site Supporter 0ddl0t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Dobbs View Post
    Something was sacrificed for passing performance here. Was it expansion or chamber pressure?
    My bet is on a reduced coefficient of drag: a larger post that helps deflect tissue around the expanded projectile.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Velo Dog View Post
    Chamber pressure should be similar to the Federal 99 grain HST @ 1030 fps from a 3.75" barrel.

    The Hornady 90 grain XTP and Federal 90 grain Hydra-Shok can penetrate to around 12 inches or so as long as average expanded diameter is less than about .450"

    However, here is a quote from firearmstactical.com
    https://web.archive.org/web/20140708...m/briefs26.htm

    "The HydraShok ammunition of today is different from the version tested by the FBI. The primary difference is the thickness of the post. Federal apparently redesigned the post so it would collapse when the bullet expands. In previous generations of HydraShok the post remained erect after bullet expansion. This was not desirable for two reasons:

    1. The erect post propelled tissue out of the path of the expanded bullet, reducing the amount of tissue that was contacted and crushed as the bullet penetrated. As a result, the bullet produced a narrower, but deeper, permanent cavity compared to conventional JHP bullets of the same caliber, weight, velocity and expanded diameter."

    The new Hydra-Shok Deep offerings have VERY robust posts.
    My snarkasm meter is pinned with this explanation.

    So to some it up, the newer design is thicker, but loses its erection much quicker.

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Dobbs View Post
    You cannot overcome the laws of physics with great ads and gimmick projectiles. Something was sacrificed for passing performance here. Was it expansion or chamber pressure?
    What about chemistry? I believe that we still haven’t reached the peak of innovation with regards to propellant. This means that over time we may be able to develop more efficient propellants to launch bullets at higher velocities without the increase in pressure. It’s actually happened over time, but each improvement has been gradual, so it’s not as obvious.

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