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Thread: Legacy Sports to import German Sigs

  1. #21
    Site Supporter MGW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNewbie View Post
    I think 228s are no longer made anywhere. That’s based of what could be a fault memory of something I read long ago.

    Kind of what I figured. But a guy can dream.
    “If you know the way broadly you will see it in everything." - Miyamoto Musashi

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by OlongJohnson View Post
    It would not surprise me if the German government has said no more exports to Sig US, on account of Cohen having been convicted of trafficking guns to Columbia. I'm sure there are some public documents somewhere that would confirm or deny the hypothesis.

    Maybe @P30 is aware.
    I don't know much about SIG Sauer because I prefer HK.

    So you wonder why SIG Sauer is going to export some pistols to the US via Legacy Sports and not via SIG US?

    As far as I know, the owners of SIG Sauer are Michael Lüke and Thomas Ortmeier, two Germans. Cohen is their manager for the US.
    German export authorities don't allow weapons exports to Columbia. Lüke and Cohen were as accuseds in a court of law in Germany in February last year. I don't know if there has been a verdict meanwhile.

    According to this article from 2016, there is another aspect to it: SIG Sauer tries to sell more weapons to German military and police. They increased the number of employees in Germany. But I know, meanwhile they've lost several public tenders for German police pistols to HK (e.g. Bavaria and Berlin ordered the HK SFP9 for their police). So maybe SIG Sauer has some free capacities in Germany, now?

    I got the impression, most of you don't like Mr. Cohen and doubt the quality of SIG US products. But I've bought a BCM Recce (AR15) a few month ago here in Germany (it's a bit modified due to German weapons law, the BCG has been replaced). Today I've shot it for the first time with a rifle scope (Kahles K16i). Precision was better than 1.5 MOA with 10 shots. I like it very much. It's light, reliable and accurate. You US guys can build great AR15 rifles.

    PS:
    JP bolt carrier groups are available in Germany. I'm considering to buy a second BCM upper with a JP BCG. What do you think about its quality? I suppose, the BCM bolt carrier group is not available here (for civilians) because it's a full-auto BCG.
    Last edited by P30; 01-10-2020 at 05:21 PM.

  3. #23
    Member Greg's Avatar
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    Sig USA products don’t suck because they are made in the US.

    They suck because of garbage parts, bad QC, and an absurdly huge product lineup. Prices have not come down to reflect the use of garbage parts either.

    Indian MIM, for fudds.
    Don’t blame me. I didn’t vote for that dumb bastard.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by P30 View Post
    I don't know if there has been a verdict meanwhile.
    I've searched for the judgement and found this: Lüke and Cohen have been convicted to suspended sentences and fines (10 to 18 months, 600,000 euros per person). More than 11 million euros are to be seized from the SIG Sauer group.
    Last edited by P30; 01-10-2020 at 06:21 PM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by MattyD380 View Post
    I wish. I wonder if they still have the slide folding machines?
    As of about 7 years ago the Machines were still there but dormant outside of small orders for contract maintenance. I doubt they still have them as the German side of Sig is barely existent anymore. I think most of the guns being made there are coming from the master shop and some classic series guns.

  6. #26
    Site Supporter OlongJohnson's Avatar
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    It's been well-explained that the milled slides are superior. The frames last longer with them, even when compared to CDO-schedule maintenance of the breech blocks.

    I'm sure it would be possible to mill some more steel out of the milled slides to lighten them, but if I had to choose, I'd rather see improved QC on tolerances, surface finishes (rails in particular) and deburring (rails in particular). Also, attention to dimension stackup as it affects lockup.
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  7. #27
    Member John Hearne's Avatar
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    The interesting question is whether Sig Germany retained the ability to make small parts in-house or whether they'll buy from Sig USA. FML.
    • It's not the odds, it's the stakes.
    • If you aren't dry practicing every week, you're not serious.....
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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by John Hearne View Post
    The interesting question is whether Sig Germany retained the ability to make small parts in-house
    Some of the best German IPSC shooters use a SIG Sauer X-Five (e.g. Heribert Bettermann, multiple world champion). It's made in Germany and I think, it's very durable.

    But in the club, where I train shooting, even more IPSC shooters use an SVI Infinity 2011. Not me, didn't want to pay so much money, yet. SVI 2011s are extremely expensive, here.

    And since this thread needs more pics: This is from Mr. Bettermann's homepage. He became IPSC world champion in 2017 (Production Super Senior). Probably with an X-Five like this:

    And this is an Infinity 2011, which I find very nice (but I don't have to own everything):

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    Last edited by P30; 01-11-2020 at 10:08 PM.

  9. #29
    Site Supporter OlongJohnson's Avatar
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    I'm looking forward to seeing some P210s that aren't embarrasing. The US-built guns make me sad.
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  10. #30
    This .... We are happy to know our products for the US market are finally back in the hands of a strong and focused importer and supplier.

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