That's not what I got out of this thread.Originally Posted by Dave T
What I took from it is that some LEOs consider that the risk to the public outweighs the benefits of pursuits in some (not all) situations.
As part of the public, I agree with them.
I had a longer reply typed up and lost it. I don't think anyone expressed that. I think many of us expressed that SOME pursuits are not worth it.
We can currently pursue for everything. We often don't, but we can. Years of data shows us that people pursued for ONLY traffic infractions (and not the "he didn't signal but I know he's got a stolen gun in the car types but seriously ONLY traffic infractions) lead to nothing better than driving while suspended in the vast vast majority of situations. So our new policy, which doesn't have a set date to go into affect yet, will eliminate infraction ONLY pursuits.
Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.
My old department would allow pursuits for violent felonies only (and often times, not even then). Several years ago, a buddy of mine attempted to stop a vehicle for a traffic infraction. The vehicle fled, and of course, the pursuit was called off. It was later determined that there was a female in the trunk of the vehicle. She had been raped, and after the pursuit, the suspect took her into the woods in an adjacent jurisdiction and killed her. We all figured the department would be sued over it, but it never happened.
Did I miss the Meme of the police dog with the "no chase?" look?
I'm sure there are exceptions. McVeigh and the license plate stop type examples. I think the question boils down to how many cars do we wreck, how many officers do we hurt, and how many citizens do we hurt for those instances? If we're killing a hand full of motorists and doing a couple hundred grand in property damage, that's not a net win. That was the point of our multi-year look at the results, so we had an informed decision.
Honestly, I thought we'd lose a lot more than we did. I figured we'd go to a felony only policy, but we can still pursue for even reasonable suspicion of a misdemeanor. Even more interesting, the policy hasn't even went into affect yet. Supervisors have been trained on it and based on the feedback and concerns presented the policy may change before it's even released. Valid questions about specific issues the brass hadn't addressed actually seem to be in the process of being considered. Do interdiction stops count even if indicators are there but no RS has yet been developed sort of questions.
Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.
Solid work led to a good policy. I'm not upset that pursuit policies are changing. Way back in the day when my department still had a lot of walking beats, they terminated their own pursuits early by putting a .38 into fleeing suspects. Sometimes it was warranted, sometimes not. Sometimes they put rounds into something other than the suspect. In the same way not every vehicle pursuit is worth risking innocent drivers. It's the blanket policy reactions that are bad. Never chase a car, choke a suspect, shoot at a car, etc. There is a time for everything, and the goal is to make sure your people know when.
"Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA
Beware of my temper, and the dog that I've found...
"Never" and "will not" wording in general orders are often the words of simpletons. Back in the day, when custody death became a thing, I discussed it with the major in charge or training. He suggested simply banning hog-tying prisoners because that would be simple. He hadn't really been on the street in many years, so I gently pointed out that sometimes you have no choice (fire-rescue was much less inclined to transport violent suspects to the hospital in those days), some combative prisoners are just bad guys rather than mentally ill or drug/alcohol intoxicated, and most importantly. scientific evidence had already debunked the positional asphyxia myth. He reluctantly backed off.
In 2018, that worthless closet cop helped force me out on a medical retirement. In 2019, the agency jams up a former use of force instructor for hog-tying a prisoner. I had taught use of force policy at in-service until 2017 and had never heard of such a ruling. The agency slipped that prohibition into the vehicle operations general order. (Oddly enough, the EVOC instructor is the newly minted internal affairs lieutenant.) Who knew?
Thecity just gave that major an award for forty years of service. The agency Facebook page congratulated him and hoped that he would serve another twenty years. If karma is actually a thing, he'll spend another twenty years serving in a patrol car, dealing with bad guys in 2020, hoping he hasn't done something wrong with his body worn camera which is the mortal sin, and will reap what he has sewn.
But there is no karma.
In the county I work, in the last three years we have had an EXCEPTIONAL number of cars stolen where the keys were left in the ignition. We don't chase them. I bet three times a week there are brief pursuits that terminate once it is determined that it's a stolen car that had the keys left inside.
Most agencies around here went to a restrictive "chase only suspects of violent felonies & don't get involved in other agencies chases" a few years ago.
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