Page 32 of 32 FirstFirst ... 22303132
Results 311 to 320 of 320

Thread: Our new and improved Iraq discussion thread!

  1. #311
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Athens, AL, USA
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
    I don't know if this has anything to do with preparation for conflict with Iran, but they are working on SOMETHING.

    https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/...wVUlE.facebook

    "GPS reception may be unavailable or unreliable over a large portion of the southeastern states and the Caribbean during offshore military exercises scheduled between January 16 and 24."

    I was on the outer fringes of that map, supposedly have to have been at 25,000+ ft altitude to been affected, but the Ford GPS nav screen was showing us going around Athens Ala in circles while headed due West out of Huntsville.
    Yup, same here going to work a few days this week. I live west of Athens and work in Huntsville, and my 2017 Taurus navigation system display showed it could not lock to any GPS satellites. No issue for me as I do not use it, but I was curious about the cause.

  2. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    Then I guess I don't get this: "How could the fact that the airport is operating as usual NOT have been communicated to the military?" as an objection. Of course they knew the airport was operating as normal. What's that got to do with a foul up in target identification?
    ok, obviously I'm not conveying my thoughts clearly.

    Fact - the airport was operational.
    How could this fact NOT have been communicated to the military? rhetorical - it was obviously communicated. My thought is the only justification for such a colossal fuck up would be not knowing their commercial airport down the street was open for business as usual.

    Which brings me to your question: What's that got to do with a foul up in target identification?

    We have known quantity - a known airport to which the military assigned to/in its vicinity should be familiar.
    A part of this familiarity would include standard flight operations --- the various (based on the current airport conditions - weather, wind speed and direction, et al) standard flight paths for both departures and arrivals, speeds, altitudes, vectors, etc.

    We have an aircraft on, presumably, a normal departure route flying at both normal speed and altitude away from the local commercial airport. One would think that at least part of target identification training would include "if it took off from our airport, at normal speed and heading.. it most likely is not the enemy"

    ???

    Part of an AA operator's job is sorting friendly from enemy from neutral. That's hard. Take a look at the required test scores to qualify to attend the training in the US Army:

    Example: AIR DEFENSE BATTLE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM OPERATOR (14G)
    ASVAB requirements: General Technical (GT): 95, Mechanical Maintenance (MM): 96

    Vs, say, INFANTRYMAN (11B) or my dumb ass COMBAT ENGINEER (12B)
    ASVAB requirement: Combat (CO): 87

    And I've met a few folks who washed out because they couldn't pass the tests and got recycled into another MOS. I don't have any exact numbers, but it would appear washout rates are fairly high, and that's with a professional volunteer army selected as a meritocracy.

    I've never worked with Iranian military (obviously), but my exposure to other middle eastern military members has not lead me to believe they have, or even value, high levels of competency. They are certainly not a meritocracy, especially in leadership roles.
    thanks for that information.
    God is not on the side of the big battalions, but on the side of those who shoot best. - Voltaire

  3. #313
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Colorado Springs

    Our new and improved Iraq discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by critter View Post

    ok, obviously I'm not conveying my thoughts clearly.

    Fact - the airport was operational.
    How could this fact NOT have been communicated to the military? rhetorical - it was obviously communicated. My thought is the only justification for such a colossal fuck up would be not knowing their commercial airport down the street was open for business as usual.

    Which brings me to your question: What's that got to do with a foul up in target identification?

    We have known quantity - a known airport to which the military assigned to/in its vicinity should be familiar.
    A part of this familiarity would include standard flight operations --- the various (based on the current airport conditions - weather, wind speed and direction, et al) standard flight paths for both departures and arrivals, speeds, altitudes, vectors, etc.

    We have an aircraft on, presumably, a normal departure route flying at both normal speed and altitude away from the local commercial airport. One would think that at least part of target identification training would include "if it took off from our airport, at normal speed and heading.. it most likely is not the enemy"

    ???



    thanks for that information.
    Again, you have a lot of faith in the average Iranian soldier. And remember, they had probably been scared shitless for days.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Wake27; 01-17-2020 at 06:41 PM.

  4. #314
    Moderator BehindBlueI's's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Midwest
    Quote Originally Posted by critter View Post

    ok, obviously I'm not conveying my thoughts clearly.

    Fact - the airport was operational.
    How could this fact NOT have been communicated to the military? rhetorical - it was obviously communicated. My thought is the only justification for such a colossal fuck up would be not knowing their commercial airport down the street was open for business as usual.

    Which brings me to your question: What's that got to do with a foul up in target identification?
    Target identification is literally what an AA guy does. They aren't shooting at any blip on the screen. Their job is to look at a clutter of blips and figure out which, if any, is a threat and then shoot it down. Of course they know the airport is operational. Of course they know most of the blips aren't a threat. That's what target identification is about. The plane was not on schedule. It was an anomaly. The weapon system is a little two missile launcher on tracks. If it's operating on it's own radar system, it sees far enough for the crew to have about 2-3 minutes tops to decide to fire before something it out of it's range. It's manned by a crew of Iranians who were trained by a group of Iranians who were trained by Russians. The same Russians who mistakenly shot down a Malaysian airplane over Ukraine and their own airplane over Syria.

    So...foul up in target identification is both the simplest and most likely answer vs, again, the tiny time frame of "can't catch him at the gate but can get authorization to blow up an entire airliner shortly and immediately execute it after take off"
    L'otters are not afraid.
    WWOMJD?

    Quote Originally Posted by UNM1136 View Post
    Maybe with talented students I would lube up with baby oil and then go at it.

  5. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by Wake27 View Post
    Again, you have a lot of faith in the average Iranian soldier. And remember, they had probably been scared shitless for days.
    I'm not sure "average Iranian soldier" applies. Specific event with specific soldier(s). We don't know whether he/she/they were average, below average, or above average. I wouldn't call it "faith." I simply do not assume incompetence for the convenience of a narrative given to us by the enemy, who bulldozed and destroyed evidence and crash/debris sites, and this narrative differs from their previous narrative. Almost everything is still speculation as to what actually occurred.

    So, why this particular plane? is there anything which differentiates if from others departing that morning? If it wasn't the first aircraft to depart, why not any of the other blips blipping away on standard blip paths? There must have been something peculiar and specific to either the particular aircraft or the particular blip. I have no idea. The presentation
    of the scenario as it currently exists is just... not quite right.
    God is not on the side of the big battalions, but on the side of those who shoot best. - Voltaire

  6. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    ... The plane was not on schedule. It was an anomaly.
    ...
    And there it is...
    God is not on the side of the big battalions, but on the side of those who shoot best. - Voltaire

  7. #317
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Colorado Springs

    Our new and improved Iraq discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by critter View Post
    I'm not sure "average Iranian soldier" applies. Specific event with specific soldier(s). We don't know whether he/she/they were average, below average, or above average. I wouldn't call it "faith." I simply do not assume incompetence for the convenience of a narrative given to us by the enemy, who bulldozed and destroyed evidence and crash/debris sites, and this narrative differs from their previous narrative. Almost everything is still speculation as to what actually occurred.

    So, why this particular plane? is there anything which differentiates if from others departing that morning? If it wasn't the first aircraft to depart, why not any of the other blips blipping away on standard blip paths? There must have been something peculiar and specific to either the particular aircraft or the particular blip. I have no idea. The presentation
    of the scenario as it currently exists is just... not quite right.
    Wow.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Wake27; 01-17-2020 at 10:10 PM.

  8. #318
    Site Supporter Borderland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    The Salish Sea
    If the US Navy can mistakenly shoot down an Iranian commercial flight then I have no doubt the Iranians can do the same thing...and did.
    Snubbies.....resolving CQC issues since nineteen fiddy.

  9. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by critter View Post

    ok, obviously I'm not conveying my thoughts clearly.

    Fact - the airport was operational.
    How could this fact NOT have been communicated to the military? rhetorical - it was obviously communicated. My thought is the only justification for such a colossal fuck up would be not knowing their commercial airport down the street was open for business as usual.

    Which brings me to your question: What's that got to do with a foul up in target identification?

    We have known quantity - a known airport to which the military assigned to/in its vicinity should be familiar.
    A part of this familiarity would include standard flight operations --- the various (based on the current airport conditions - weather, wind speed and direction, et al) standard flight paths for both departures and arrivals, speeds, altitudes, vectors, etc.

    We have an aircraft on, presumably, a normal departure route flying at both normal speed and altitude away from the local commercial airport. One would think that at least part of target identification training would include "if it took off from our airport, at normal speed and heading.. it most likely is not the enemy"

    ???



    thanks for that information.
    Read the NORAD/DOD transcripts from 9/11 to see what a disaster communication was for the finest military in the world. You’re putting way too much faith in the Iranians.

  10. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by TC215 View Post
    Read the NORAD/DOD transcripts from 9/11 to see what a disaster communication was for the finest military in the world. You’re putting way too much faith in the Iranians.
    Not really faith in capabilities, per se. It's more along the line of expecting snakes to act like snakes. I surmise, though I could be mistaken, that the over whelming majority of British, Canadian citizens on that plane were of Iranian descent. They could be seen as traitors, whatever -- wrapped up in a nice, neat little package -- on a plane from a country neither from the region nor a military threat to them in any way -- sitting ducks as it were as fodder for an act of revenge or terror,

    Anyway... after the exchange with BBI, the trigger happy goof seems a level of magnitude more plausible.
    God is not on the side of the big battalions, but on the side of those who shoot best. - Voltaire

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •