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Thread: Fort Scott Munitions TUI

  1. #1

    Fort Scott Munitions TUI

    Has anyone here had any experience with Fort Scott Munition TUI ammo, specifically in 9MM? It's made to Tumble Upon Impact and cause a bigger wound channel. Had a guy a local gun store filling my in and for the life of me I had never heard of this ammo before. He uses it in his EDC. Wanting to see what you all think of it

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Conrad0011 View Post
    Has anyone here had any experience with Fort Scott Munition TUI ammo, specifically in 9MM? It's made to Tumble Upon Impact and cause a bigger wound channel. Had a guy a local gun store filling my in and for the life of me I had never heard of this ammo before. He uses it in his EDC. Wanting to see what you all think of it
    Is this what you are taking about?

    Name:  9mm 80-grain FS ammo.jpg
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    9mm NATO 124-grain FMJ also tumbles (or yaws) in bodies and is not widely regarded as being the best choice for self-defense ammunition. Even with the pointed nose of the 80-grain Fort Scott offering, I am not sure that it offers any appreciable gain/benefits over premium JHPs or typical FMJRNs found in common practice ammunition. That means it is a 'hard pass' for me; I'd recommend premium expanding designs like 9mm 124-grain and 147-grain Speer Gold Dots and 124-grain and 147-grain Federal HSTs.
    Last edited by the Schwartz; 01-05-2020 at 04:15 PM.
    ''Politics is for the present, but an equation is for eternity.'' ―Albert Einstein

    Full disclosure per the Pistol-Forum CoC: I am the author of Quantitative Ammunition Selection.

  3. #3
    Site Supporter 0ddl0t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the Schwartz View Post
    Even with the pointed nose of the 80-grain Fort Scott offering, I am not sure that it offers any appreciable gain/benefits over premium JHPs or typical FMJRNs found in common practice ammunition.
    I still wouldn't pick it, but the 80 grain Fort Scott has a few benefits:

    1) It can penetrate some IIIA armor when fired from duty-length barrel
    2) It does not penetrate 30+ inches in gel like a ball round
    3) It is non-expanding, making it legal in certain jurisdictions that ban JHPs
    4) It is non-lead for jurisdictions banning lead


    As for downsides: while I haven't personally shot the 80 gr fort scott, I have yet to shoot any 60-90grain 9mm ammo that hits close to point of aim when zeroed for 115-147gr fmjrn...
    Last edited by 0ddl0t; 01-05-2020 at 06:02 PM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by 0ddl0t View Post
    I still wouldn't pick it, but the 80 grain Fort Scott has a few benefits:
    Very few, actually...

    Quote Originally Posted by 0ddl0t View Post
    1) It can penetrate some IIIA armor when fired from duty-length barrel
    Some? I'm not convinced that it is much of a benefit, but I'll give you that one.

    Quote Originally Posted by 0ddl0t View Post
    2) It does not penetrate 30+ inches in gel like a ball round
    There are no guarantees that Fort Scott 9mm 80-grain TUI will yaw or tumble ''end-over-end'' either. If it does not do so, one can expect that the Fort Scott 9mm 80-grain TUI, with a 0.355'' diameter bullet at 1,355 fps (as specified by the manufacturer) will penetrate excessively as predicted below—

    Q-model prediction: 23.035 inches
    mTHOR model prediction: 17.981 inches
    MacPherson model: 18.649 inches

    If you look at the penetration of the Fort Scott 9mm 80-grain TUI that is depicted in the video produced by the manufacturer—

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo

    —(which, of course, uses the clear gel product ), you'll see the pointy little projectile zip right on through a 16-inch long block of the stuff confirming the predictions of the models above.

    In fact, right here on their very own website—

    https://fortscottmunitions.com/produ...e-handgun-ammo

    —they advertise the 9mm 80-grain TUI design as having "superior penetration".

    Pass-throughs? No thanks. If in doubt about just how bad those can be, just ask NYPD how the 9mm 115-grain FMJs they issued in the mid- to late-1990s worked for them.

    So, nope, not a benefit or an advantage.

    Quote Originally Posted by 0ddl0t View Post
    3)It is non-expanding, making it legal in certain jurisdictions that ban JHPs
    Then, given its demonstrated tendency to zip through flesh just like FMJs, it offers nothing over FMJs. Might as well ''go cheap'' and get the much cheaper FMJs so you can save your pennies to pay for the lawsuits when those non-expanding rounds strike an innocent. (See again, the fate suffered by those on the wrong side of NYPD FMJs in the mid- to late-1990s).

    So, it penetrates just as much as FMJs; again, no benefit or advantage here.

    Quote Originally Posted by 0ddl0t View Post
    4)It is non-lead for jurisdictions banning lead
    There are excellent options for non-lead projectiles (e.g.: Barnes X-TAC) and they even expand reliably, do not penetrate excessively.

    No advantage to using the Fort Scott 9mm 80-grain TUI here either.


    So, the Fort Scott 9mm 80-grain TUI is still a ''hard pass'' for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by 0ddl0t View Post
    As for downsides: while I haven't personally shot the 80 gr fort scott, I have yet to shoot any 60-90grain 9mm ammo that hits close to point of aim when zeroed for 115-147gr fmjrn...
    Well, that's not good either.
    Last edited by the Schwartz; 01-05-2020 at 07:41 PM.
    ''Politics is for the present, but an equation is for eternity.'' ―Albert Einstein

    Full disclosure per the Pistol-Forum CoC: I am the author of Quantitative Ammunition Selection.

  5. #5

    ThatÂ’s it!

    Quote Originally Posted by the Schwartz View Post
    Is this what you are taking about?

    Name:  9mm 80-grain FS ammo.jpg
Views: 5880
Size:  23.0 KB

    9mm NATO 124-grain FMJ also tumbles (or yaws) in bodies and is not widely regarded as being the best choice for self-defense ammunition. Even with the pointed nose of the 80-grain Fort Scott offering, I am not sure that it offers any appreciable gain/benefits over premium JHPs or typical FMJRNs found in common practice ammunition. That means it is a 'hard pass' for me; I'd recommend premium expanding designs like 9mm 124-grain and 147-grain Speer Gold Dots and 124-grain and 147-grain Federal HSTs.


    Yeah, thatÂ’s it. I use HST 124 gr +p now. HeÂ’s telling me that the tumbling ammo is being used by more LE groups. HeÂ’s served overseas and pointed out the Mil doesn't use HP ammo. I KNOW why I use HP (MAG40 grad), but this guy is in favor of putting more holes in a perp. He doesnÂ’t believe that HPs do the job they are portrayed to do.
    Anyway, he gave me a lot to ponder and so IÂ’m throwing it out here to get some feedback. Got me thinking

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conrad0011 View Post
    Yeah, thatÂ’s it. I use HST 124 gr +p now. HeÂ’s telling me that the tumbling ammo is being used by more LE groups. HeÂ’s served overseas and pointed out the Mil doesn't use HP ammo. I KNOW why I use HP (MAG40 grad), but this guy is in favor of putting more holes in a perp. He doesnÂ’t believe that HPs do the job they are portrayed to do.
    Anyway, he gave me a lot to ponder and so IÂ’m throwing it out here to get some feedback. Got me thinking
    Dude is lacking in context completely. General .mil doesn't use JHP's, but it has nothing to do with effectiveness. Some .mil is issued JHP.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conrad0011 View Post
    Yeah, thatÂ’s it. I use HST 124 gr +p now. HeÂ’s telling me that the tumbling ammo is being used by more LE groups. HeÂ’s served overseas and pointed out the Mil doesn't use HP ammo. I KNOW why I use HP (MAG40 grad), but this guy is in favor of putting more holes in a perp. He doesnÂ’t believe that HPs do the job they are portrayed to do.
    Anyway, he gave me a lot to ponder and so IÂ’m throwing it out here to get some feedback. Got me thinking
    Every U.S. and Canadian LE Agency I’m aware of is using JHP, usually a bonded bullet (or equivalent like Gold Dot). Even the NYPD in ultra liberal NYC quickly abandoned FMJ duty ammo for JHP soon after transitioning to autos due to over penetration and shoot through issues.

    Most militaries use FMJ because it is cheap, Hague Convention compliant, or both. The U.S. Military is currently using JHP in certain circumstances including CONUS force protection and law enforcement.

    Tumbling bullets are Horse-shit. There are no magic bullets. The Terminal ballistics of handgun bullets are pretty settled science at this point. Your buddy could be a flat earth believer but that would not make it so.

    On another note, lots of people served overseas. Few of them saw actual combat with small arms and fewer still shot anyone in theater with a pistol.
    Last edited by HCM; 01-06-2020 at 02:15 AM.

  8. #8
    Site Supporter Hambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conrad0011 View Post
    Had a guy a local gun store filling my in and for the life of me I had never heard of this ammo before. He uses it in his EDC. Wanting to see what you all think of it
    I don't believe sea stories, fairy tales, or ammo stories from some guy in a gun shop.

    About the ammo/website:

    Videos of gel shooting, check.
    T-shirts, check.
    One shot in clear gel, check.
    Actual testing and information, nada.

    There were all kinds of innovative ammo designs in the 1980s. They all sucked, but every now and then someone recycles them.
    "Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Conrad0011 View Post
    Yeah, thatÂ’s it. I use HST 124 gr +p now. HeÂ’s telling me that the tumbling ammo is being used by more LE groups. HeÂ’s served overseas and pointed out the Mil doesn't use HP ammo. I KNOW why I use HP (MAG40 grad), but this guy is in favor of putting more holes in a perp. He doesnÂ’t believe that HPs do the job they are portrayed to do.
    Anyway, he gave me a lot to ponder and so IÂ’m throwing it out here to get some feedback. Got me thinking
    I've served overseas and I don't believe a word of it.
    #RESIST

  10. #10
    Site Supporter 0ddl0t's Avatar
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    Penetrated IIa & IIIa armor, but did not do significantly more damage to the meat target than FMJ:


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