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Thread: Vortex Razor Gen 3 1-10x

  1. #21
    THE THIRST MUTILATOR Nephrology's Avatar
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    Damn. Very nice. Wonder what the Viper Gen III will be like if true.

  2. #22
    WDLP Lawn Dart Champion SamueL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha Sierra View Post
    Is the Steiner P4Xi 1-4X on the list? It's absolutely daylight bright under any circumstances, including full bright sun over a white, snowy landscape.
    The Steiner P4Xi is not on the list. If it were, that is what I would be using.

    Burris MTAC, Bushnell Throw Down PCL, Trijicon Accupower, Vortex CrossFire II, and Vortex Viper PST... all 1-4x are the approved LPVOs. I believe some of those optics were already discontinued by the time the list was distributed.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    Well, that was my whole original point. I don’t “need” a 1-x optic. Last time I shot the Broward matches I was winning with an iron-sight gun that cost less than the optics most of the other guys were using to lose to me. Not a highly competitive field, to be sure, but it’s the pond I lived in.

    But, if someone ever comes up with a sub-16oz 1-6 that’s under $1k I’d probably be a player.

    So I hold out hope that while the scope makers chase the derp/larp/MOAR/arrow(vs Indian) market with ever increasing magnification because:sniper, they’ll fuck around and make what I want simply because they have the spare parts sitting around

    We all get that guns are ballistic golf clubs for you. You do you, but there are those of us who carry guns for a living. If I were a betting man, I would bet this was Vortex’s competitor vs the NF 1-8 ATACR in the SOCOM trials.

    Shooting doesn’t necessarily equal fighting. In LE and in military situations with restricted ROE being able to discriminate between legitimate targets and non threats is a valuable capability. The “rule of thumb” is you need 2x magnification per 100 yards /meters to Positively ID an exposed man sized target, vs 1x per 100 to hit the same target.

    Durability is also a thing. I’m pretty happy with my Khales 1-6 but at 17.5 oz even that doesn’t meet your desired weight. One good thing about the LARP market is the bargains on good, barely used, optics like Khales and S&B when the new hotness comes out ;-)

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    We all get that guns are ballistic golf clubs for you. You do you, but there are those of us who carry guns for a living. If I were a betting man, I would bet this was Vortex’s competitor vs the NF 1-8 ATACR in the SOCOM trials.

    Shooting doesn’t necessarily equal fighting. In LE and in military situations with restricted ROE being able to discriminate between legitimate targets and non threats is a valuable capability. The “rule of thumb” is you need 2x magnification per 100 yards /meters to Positively ID an exposed man sized target, vs 1x per 100 to hit the same target.

    Durability is also a thing. I’m pretty happy with my Khales 1-6 but at 17.5 oz even that doesn’t meet your desired weight. One good thing about the LARP market is the bargains on good, barely used, optics like Khales and S&B when the new hotness comes out ;-)
    I am sure Rob didn’t mean anything negative toward anyone in a profession of arms. He understands his needs are different. He’s a very skilled shooter and was a great competitor. He was also on the line with us during classes with Mac, Defoor, etc. I’m positive he understands the difference between shooting and fighting with a gun. And I don’t fault him for wanting what he wants in rifle glass. I just have different priorities and responsibilities, so spending what I did for a Z6i is something I was willing to do.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Cid View Post
    I am sure Rob didn’t mean anything negative toward anyone in a profession of arms. He understands his needs are different. He’s a very skilled shooter and was a great competitor. He was also on the line with us during classes with Mac, Defoor, etc. I’m positive he understands the difference between shooting and fighting with a gun. And I don’t fault him for wanting what he wants in rifle glass. I just have different priorities and responsibilities, so spending what I did for a Z6i is something I was willing to do.
    Rob made some great contributions to the shooting community then got burnt out. It’s OK, it happens, but subsequently heere on PF he has tended to espouse the idea that if he doesn’t need it nobody does across a range of topics.

    As you well know, not everything is for carbine matches. One of my current interests is better sling control options for the carbine. It’s not sexy and it doesn’t have any match application but most of what we do with the carbine involves getting in and out of vehicles so I appreciate not getting my sling hung up.

    LVPOs Will continue to evolve and there will be the sane trickle down effect we have always seen as cheaper better and lighter optics come out. At one time the S&B Short dot was the hot ticket and the price of admission for a 1-4 was steep. Now, if a 1-4 works for you you can get 90% or better of that performance in a sub $1000 Steiner PX4i.

  6. #26
    Site Supporter rob_s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    We all get that guns are ballistic golf clubs for you. You do you, but there are those of us who carry guns for a living.
    So if I carry a gun for a living, but I have a gun that I don’t use for work, am not allowed to use for work, and is set up in some way other than my work gun, what does it make that gun?


    subsequently heere on PF he has tended to espouse the idea that if he doesn’t need it nobody does across a range of topics.
    Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. Having spent as much time in and around the business, I know the tropes, I know the falsehoods that aren’t allowed to be questioned, I know a LOT about the business and marketing of fear... it’s kind of like when someone finally stops drinking, or smoking pot, or whatever and how they suddenly have a much clearer perspective on those that still partake. But that’s not ALWAYS my thoughts. I just have a low to,earn extra for bullshit, and as I said in the novelty thread, just because someone carries a gun for a living doesn’t preclude them from all the same fantasies that affect accountants, lawyers, and convenience store clerks... I would guess that you’ve even likely seen this yourself. Christ, I’ve seen whole departments and purchasing programs, and even SWAT team training, based on utter nonsense. And that’s just from the sidelines!

    Specifically on the subject at hand, I’d like to know Vortex, and maybe some other companies’, actual customer demographics. Maybe they are developing optics for various military trials, or maybe they’re entering said military trials to gin up commercial sales, in whole or in part.

    And my original point still stands. What *I* want is a 1-6 that’s sub-16oz and under $1k, and so I hope that optics like the one in the OP make that. Ore of a reality, regardless of whether the optic in question is being developed to fill a larp. We’d or a real one.
    Last edited by rob_s; 01-05-2020 at 10:22 PM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    So if I carry a gun for a living, but I have a gun that I don’t use for work, am not allowed to use for work, and is set up in some way other than my work gun, what does it make that gun?



    Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. Having spent as much time in and around the business, I know the tropes, I know the falsehoods that aren’t allowed to be questioned, I know a LOT about the business and marketing of fear... it’s kind of like when someone finally stops drinking, or smoking pot, or whatever and how they suddenly have a much clearer perspective on those that still partake. But that’s not ALWAYS my thoughts. I just have a low to,earn extra for bullshit, and as I said in the novelty thread, just because someone carries a gun for a living doesn’t preclude them from all the same fantasies that affect accountants, lawyers, and convenience store clerks... I would guess that you’ve even likely seen this yourself. Christ, I’ve seen whole departments and purchasing programs, and even SWAT team training, based on utter nonsense. And that’s just from the sidelines!

    Specifically on the subject at hand, I’d like to know Vortex, and maybe some other companies’, actual customer demographics. Maybe they are developing optics for various military trials, or maybe they’re entering said military trials to gin up commercial sales, in whole or in part.

    And my original point still stands. What *I* want is a 1-6 that’s sub-16oz and under $1k, and so I hope that optics like the one in the OP make that. Ore of a reality, regardless of whether the optic in question is being developed to fill a larp. We’d or a real one.
    In some cases that non work gun is recreational in others it is a test bed. Even in large agencies or In some cases especially in large agencies fielding new year starts out with someone ponying up for it and putting in the effort to formally test it or buy it for the Agency. Some agencies are big on “testing” freebies, but mine frowns on that. I have always been told if you want to try it, buy it.

    There are cops carrying Serpa holsters and Springfield Armory XD’s, In fact there are agencies and at least one branch of the military that issue Serpa holsters So you don’t have to tell me about Derp existing in law-enforcement and military circles. That doesn’t change the fact that LP videos are a solid choice for a “do it all” optic and superior to an RDS with a magnifier in my experience.

    Right now what you are really paying for with the higher end LPVOs is the RDS-ish performance on the low-end. In my state LPVOs are a double edged sword for state and local LE. A 5.56 is a viable hunting rifle here but the state LE certification currently caps patrol rifles at 5x. To run a 1-6 on a patrol rifle you must pass a state certified sniper course and shoot the state sniper qual which is just stupid.

    As for demographics there are guys deploying with Strike Eagles and PST IIs because the advantages of the LPVO are such that it’s worthwhile even if one can’t afford a top end model.

    There is no free lunch and I think 1-10 is a bit much for a GP 5.56 but it really depends on the use. As a do it all home defense and hunting rifle it’s viable. Along those lines, a 34mm 1-10 which is the same weight as Vortex’s “reduced weight” 30mm 1-6 is, if nothing else, a neat bit of engineering.
    Last edited by HCM; 01-05-2020 at 11:16 PM.

  8. #28
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    Vortex is listening - her’s something so Robs can flex on the poors...

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    Last edited by HCM; 01-05-2020 at 11:26 PM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    Vortex is listening - her’s something so Robs can flex on the poors...

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    I guess this would be the NcStar version: https://hivemill.com/collections/smb...lemans-monocle


  10. #30
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    I've been thinking about a scope for shorter range LEO precision rifle use. Something that you can throw on a .308 AR platform for urban use where the max range might be 75-100 yards and something having a true 1X which could be used to clear rooms in a pinch. Something like this might be the ticket, definitely interesting.

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